The Used Bike Market, Why Longer & Slacker Isn't Always Better, New Revel Ranger... Episode 110 [Podcast]

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On today's podcast, we discuss the new Revel Ranger, our Deviate Claymore Review, and why longer & slacker isn’t always better before jumping into a thoughtful array of listener questions ranging from what goes into optimizing bike design, new tires we’ve been testing and loving, the second hand bike market and much much more... Tune in!

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Ladies and gentlemen welcome to episode
110 of the MTB podcast presented and hosted by worldwide Cyclery and Bean
the cat my name is Jared why did you say that
and I'm Jeff and I'm Liam not Bean the cat Jared's cat's not here he just really wanted to talk about his cat I
guess in this episode we're going to discuss the new Revel Ranger version 2 our
deviate claymare Claymore review video why longer and slacker isn't always
better plus listener questions ranging from what goes into optimizing bike design new tires we've been testing and
loving the second hand bike market and much much more so much more so without
further Ado you're off sound effect Duty since you just uh talked about your cat so it's on you're on sound effective
wow that was pretty good reasonably so oh reasonably
one more slip up from you buddy mentions off the cuff for me
uh recent news in the bicycle industry that's worth discussing at least things that's uh happened to us that we care
about in our lives um Revel Rebel Ranger V2 uh I love Revel
Rebel's been such like literally probably the best brand we've ever worked with to be honest in terms of
like people and bikes and the way they see the world and the way they communicate and the way they listen to
feedback and it's just really good um obviously when was Adam on episode
108 eight a couple episodes back out of the founder of Rebel was on so if you're curious to learn more about Rebel bikes
listen to that he was all that was the second time he was on the first time he was on he talked a lot more about his founding story and whatnot I don't
remember what episode that was 92. uh I don't know just search it on there's a
bit worldwide Cyclery website or scroll back in your podcast queue there but they uh my favorite bike from Rebel
which I ride pretty much all the time is the Ranger 115 mil travel in the back 120 in the front 29er some might say
it's a light trail bike the word down country gets tossed around but I don't really care too much with the turn down plus XC I never heard that but plus it's
confusing because then people think of Plus Tires on there plus size I'm so glad that fast
light Trail short travel if you will yeah travel short travel 29er yes yeah
to me it's a general all-around fantastic mountain bike it is a mountain bike it is a mountain bike it is a bike
you ride in the mountains uh I ride that thing more than any other bike that I've had in the last three years because it
just works great especially for where I am most the time it just works amazing like for how well it climbs and I'll
just fast and efficient that bike is it just descends amazing and yeah I like that so great handling I'm super into that but I was also stoked riding that
uh new Yeti SB 120 which you have right now Liam yep that thing was really fun even when I went over the bars super
hard crashing into Jared uh if you want to see that crash it's in one of these
podcasts recent podcasts and recent YouTube videos uh but the ranger V2
they uh they changed a couple things here new rear triangle some new links too yeah right because they changed all
the bearings and the hardware to connect to the bearings which is that's one of those changes that most people like what
what is that I don't care but it's actually pretty meaningful for people who work on the bike a lot and it's like
mechanic friendly it's more terrible longer lasting it's much more durable than the uh first version
um it's stiffer because of the way it mounts to the frame the way the links
are designed now to handle the new hardware as well as bigger and double Road bearings I don't know if that was
on every uh pivot on the V1 but it is now on the V2
um so it actually translates to you know I think they claim 20 stiffer ride fuel
so but part of that was also the carbon layer that is also part of the carbon layup as well but in combination the
whole rear end is stiffer with the links in the rear triangle so one of the things I appreciated about Revel is that
they didn't just follow this everything needs to be stiffer everything needs to be stiffer they actually kind of
communicated pretty well they're like well we spent some time optimizing and tuning these bikes to where they're not
overly stiff but also not flexi yeah and I was like yes we need because there's definitely bikes
that have taken it too far and they just chatter your teeth out because they're just so stiff so there there is a there
is a level there like everything optimize stiffness or optimize Flex is amazing yeah yeah I did a really good
job on that with the gravel bike to the Rover it's you know looks pretty beefy but it rides pretty smooth based on the
carbon layup and everything so yeah isn't that bike slightly heavier than other gravel competitors though no not
really it's like it might even change it might be a little bit but like if you're comparing it to like a an open which is
like a gravel race bike The Rovers and gravel race bike it's like a gravel fun bike yeah that's what's so funny about
the gravel side is that you have these mountain bikers who come into gravel and they say yeah I want something that is
optimized stiffness that's durable that's fun to ride and then you have these Roadies that come into it and say I need something super light just with
like wider clearance for tires and wider clearance because I'm going to run on a fire road so there's like two totally opposing opinions there yeah forward to
if you want to get in the weeds but yeah yeah yeah then you have bikes like that and you specialize that has like the weird seat tube that's like separated
from there yeah let's not talk about it yeah well I'm just saying that's like a whole nother Rabbit Hole like weird yeah
yeah it's true that's a weird side of the thing but that that new ranger my my
biggest you know I rode that V1 so much the biggest thing I noticed obviously on the V2 that was really meaningful to me
was chainering clearance has improved because that new rear triangle which means now there's just absolutely no issues running different size oval chain
Rings um and different brands and cranks and whatever and then uh the tire clearance
they could add some more Tire clearance on there I buzzed my tire every so often on the side of that thing and they fix that for the V2
um and oh it's also udh now oh yeah the V2 that I'd been riding had the SRAM
transmission on it and it's just so quiet yeah that whole system I've never ridden a Ranger with the transmission on
there and it is just unbelievable how quiet it is it's just like wow this is it changes the web like if you just rode
a bike back to back with with that drive training without I think the sound and the is the biggest thing you notice
that's nice I mean that's a huge part and shifting under load of course too but that you know that's a big change
but other than that like just the sound like when you're talking about just descending with a like not when you're
not pedaling your drivetrain how does it perform that's the quietest drive train I've ever ridden that's nice yeah so
chain slap is annoying say the least yeah yep it sure is yeah but they didn't
change any geometry of the Ranger V2 which I think is fine yeah I think it's
perfect for what it is dedicated for so yeah totally I agree yeah I definitely
agree with that I think that there's schools of thought of different people in their various preferences and we're
going to get into that later in this episode oh because it is an interesting topic of why lower and slacker isn't
always better and or sorry longer and slacker longer slacker and lower and lower uh isn't always better and and I
think that there there is some interesting conversation to be had around that and just the way that bike brands have to differentiate their whole
bike lineup and where it makes sense and doesn't make sense to change head tube angles and reach and all that stuff but
we'll jump to that in a minute here first we will mention oh yeah the Revel Ranger V2 we did a YouTube video if
you're curious to watch more about that check it out uh the Youtube video that YouTube guys did yeah was the deviate Claymore yeah
yeah my very different bike this is this is a beefier long travel 29er how much
travel was on that sucker 165. yeah yeah 170 or 180 Fork yep right
yeah that was a super fun bike um had a great time riding that bike and uh Liam spent what like at least a month
on or or a few weeks on the play more when they sent to us probably a little over a month um but yeah I got to write
exactly Myers are one of our employees out in Reno uh he is mechanic and customer service representative up there
and he himself has a pretty sweet Claymore um that if you watch the video you saw and he was nice enough to lend
it to us everything is decked out yeah yeah it's actually like phenomenally good Rider so like he knows how to build
his bike and deck him out nice sick yeah that's really cool and I was really glad that we didn't crash this one while
we're filming that's good I'm sorry Liam you did last year like we did last time
um but yeah that bike was great um honestly I was like wow I would love to ride this like ride this bike and
have one of these at some point yeah it's pretty cool if I were racing Enduro that would probably be my first bike
choice would be the TV Claymore yeah yeah pretty sick I'd love tried one but yeah um super stoked I also thought it
was going to climb like way worse and I was like that's what everyone says about it because it's a it's a big long travel
Enduro bike yeah um with slack Geo like all the right things and it's high pivot everyone
thinks it's going to climb that and they all go oh wow it climbs way better than I thought yeah really well yeah um and
traction on technical stuff I was just like whoa okay yeah um kind of totally uh changed my mind on that so just sick
I really enjoyed that bike yeah solid yeah and we'll descend it obviously really well too yeah yeah yeah
it has this ability when descending to like kind of stay up in a travel enough
to give you support um but it still is obviously plush still the rear wheel gets out of the way like
a high pivot should and it holds its line through corners really well which I've found on a few other high pivots
I've written and they like as the wheelbase grows it kind of wants to like stand you up in the corner has like your
rebound kind of comes back and the Claymore didn't give me that feeling at all so nice yeah
yeah that's a well-optimized bike have you ridden uh Claymore not extensively not enough to uh make many comments on
it while you guys well yeah that's fair enough yeah but that's what was you guys
you guys did did we needed to do there yeah we sure did so I'm gonna do it again if I had to that was good in terms
of long travel bikes I'm still just riding that Banshee Titan oh yeah I wrote it yesterday
I just rode in Newbury so I did just a big loop like came down dos Thanos and then Road water tower a couple laps and
then back up nice and I got a nail a big Rusty like maybe four inch nail like
from like 20 years ago from 20 years ago in the side lug of the tire knob but it
didn't puncture the tire it doesn't even happen straight through were you cornering or I don't know who knows I
don't know like yeah it was just somewhere I basically just all of a sudden started hearing and I was like oh my God I thought it
was just like a rock or a stick or something got stuck in the tire but it didn't go away so then I stopped and I'm
like oh my god oh dude there's a nail right through the corner lug I think it was like how good of luck so
unexplainable explainably placed that we should put a photo uh in the YouTube
video yeah for people to see because it's Green Goblin yeah YouTube video because it's like how it
looks like you literally just like shoved the nail through the look I know it's pretty fun how does that even happen yeah so if you want to see that
uh just go to the MTV podcast YouTube channel because we put these podcasts and anywhere you listen to your podcast
as well as YouTube and you can watch us live talk to a camera talking to these
microphones while the camera's there a lot of you know you know what's funny is we did this and then we took it away and
was like we'll bring back the videos okay well we'll bring them back yeah we listen to the people I didn't know
people wanted to watch us so much talking to the microphones but you're handsome will do it that was so when it was it the last
podcast I said uh help us out on the YouTube channel by leaving a comment just say something random say like
Jared's hair is cool yeah and then and then Jared's like man I was reading the comments and all these people were saying my hair was really cool and I was
wondering why what's happening and then I was like oh yeah that's what you said at the end oh my God and I was like oh
man my hair actually isn't that awesome people are just being nice Taylor must be really nice listening to what Jeff
has just following orders helping us out by leaving a comment on the YouTube video yeah that was pretty funny so if
you are watching just leave a comment be like yeah beans is awesome say Liam's hair is really cool Liam's hair is cool
yeah yeah that's actually that's even more funny since Liam doesn't really
have much hair it looks hilarious it's hilarious man that's hilarious funnier than being oh
man you wish you gotta start your own podcast about your cat yeah yeah you should have bean
talk it'll be really funny it'd be like oh man but yeah all right let's get back
on topic back on top bikers can hear something that matters yeah well speaking of like long traveling drill
bikes maybe we go jump into white lung and slacker isn't always better
like in the case of the new Rebel Ranger yeah I mean I think this Topic's been
talked about a lot obviously pink Buck did the whole Grim donut thing where they tried to push it as far as they possibly could uh in terms of being long
low and slack and there is totally a limit it also really depends on your use
case and your preferences and I don't know it gets a little complex but I think one meaningful thing is that
there's a lot of shorter travel bikes I.E 100 to 120 mil
and a lot of people go they want almost downhill geometry on them in terms of
like a downhill uh reach and head angle and it really doesn't make that much sense like I think everyone's kind of
tried that and then kind of realized like I actually kind of doesn't make sense to do that yeah like those bikes are meant to be climbed you climb a lot
on those bikes and it just handles a lot better like you just need more balanced and sensible geometry like your geometry
needs to match the ratio of how often you're climbing versus descending um especially and and obviously a bike
that's 120 or less you're climbing a bit more then you're climbing a bike that's 160. uh again you there's obviously
exceptions in use cases but I think that it is interesting because you know there is we brought this up because because
Liam was all agitated about the comments on some people in the ranger like why didn't they make that thing slacker uh I
mean I think some people probably say that about the SB 120 or like any shorter travel 100 120 mil travel bike
people why don't they make a slacker well it doesn't
it's like well how about we look different use case a few years back like okay this is what like downhill bike
geometry used to be a few years ago yeah like and now this is a cross-country bike geometry yeah I mean I think it's
like the old saying right you're bringing a knife to a gunfight like yeah like why do you want a 120 mole bike
with such a slight head tube angle to do what to bottom out your 120 yeah every big hit you get you know like it's yeah
it's not really the right tool for that yeah the intentions don't match the geometry yeah and then Jeff and I were
talking about the evil following because when the that first V1 came out that
really like dude that bike made waves I think I think the two bikes that really made waves especially in the 29er world
was the evil following and the specialized Enduro when they first went to nine because those two bikes were the
first two that really nailed the 29er geometry that went from oh 29er sucks
you sit above the bike you know you can't handle it's only for XC yeah and then these bikes came out and they're
like like well these bikes actually shred and it was actually at the point where 29er
like tires and rim technology wasn't actually up to spec of how hard you can
push these bikes at the point so but looking at that the evil pushed the head tube angle bit they dropped the BB
which really made you kind of sit in this 29 or more than
bikes previous to that but now if you look at the evil following it hasn't gone much longer or slacker than they
did wouldn't that bike come out 2013 2014. it was a while ago like that's a member right I got one and just fell in
love yeah it's awesome yeah it's almost a decade ago and the geodes barely changed on that bike at all so it
doesn't really need to and it really shouldn't it doesn't need to I don't think um they've gone a little bit longer on the reach and a little bit
steeper on a c tube angle but head tube angle hasn't really gotten too much slacker
um I think that's a company that like knows where its limits are and each bike has its own purpose right like yeah the
evil following which is their shortest travel bike doesn't have the same head tube angle as the evil Reckoning which is their longest
travel 29er right and that's for a reason right yeah I think like you know there's something to be said about
pushing the boundaries of geometry on like a downhill bike because I think we're still kind of like searching for
the limit there like people are still going faster and faster like every year and they're pushing the boundaries of these bikes whereas like we kind of
already know the limits of like a cross-country or trail bike like you're not gonna you don't wanna like exceed that you know like if you look at World
Cup Downhill races like these guys are getting better and faster every year but I actually think big travel monster Enduro bikes are
actually slacker than most World Cup bikes at this point yeah uh most World Cup bikes around like a 63.5 to 625 head
tube angle and the transition spiers like 62.5 it might even be slacker in a
certain position yeah that's absurd and that bike you're supposed to Pedal with yeah but I mean I get that that's like
you know almost like a free ride-esque type bike right so you kind of have to
match the intentions there too where you're not really sure about like you know what you're getting yourself into
but yeah I don't know I well if to talk about it from a business perspective brands that make bikes have to find some
way to differentiate their different models and if you're going to have 115 mil travel bike a 130 mil travel bike a
160 mil travel bike you have to find a way to reasonably differentiate those products and the The Fringe case the
edge cases the there are the riders that say Hey I want the shorter travel 120 mil travel bike with this obscenely
slack Geo like that's a fringe so it's not that that's like bad per se but
that's just a fringe case so for these Brands they're not they're not trying to necessarily make bikes for The Fringe case they're trying to say Well if you
know 90 of people that buy 115 mil travel 120 mil travel bike you know use
it for quite a bit of climbing quite a bit of fire roads quite a bit of you know descending like it's just a much more all-around bike and they want they
want certain aspects of it to ride certain ways then they have to and it reasonably makes sense for them to make
a Geo a certain way um because it's just a different bike right a different use case so so
economically they're not just gonna you know make bikes for the 10 of people that want downhill head angles on short
travel trail bikes like business sense it doesn't make any business sense at all so yeah and I think they have to do this
um yeah and I mean there's I think there's some ways that these these Fringe Riders who want this downhill Geo
on short travel trail bikes can give it a go and yeah sure you love it let's see
what you're riding in three years all right I think Revel does that really well actually is makes bikes yeah four
ninety percent of people and probably what more than 90 percent of people should be writing is a bike with
sensible Geo in the travel range that is specified for so like the rebel Ranger you know has good like dial Geo forged
travel range and 90 of people that want a 115 wheel travel bike should be on
this Geo maybe even 95 of people yeah you know even with like the real two nine I remember when that came out people were you know Rebel was somewhat
criticized for having two conservative of geometry and like you kind of said it's like well people are probably better off having that slightly more
conservative geometry because you're realistically not riding like the steepest stuff in the world every ride
you go unless you like living yeah I'm not sure yeah whatever yeah I mean a perfect example which I think is this is
a pretty funny example but we've talked about our buddy FBI Matt several times um he he had he's gone through so many
bikes but he's real um right currently yeah currently so he had a rascal a rebel Rascal then he
really wanted to just like get an Enduro bike and you know got you went way down the rabbit hole of reading the comments
of these Fringe case Riders on comment threads yeah unfortunately the French case writers tend to have the loudest
voice and and he so of course he ends up buying a mondraker when I was like dude you just it's just not the bike for you
like I know your skill level we've ridden plenty of times it's it's not it's not the bike that's gonna work for you
um they're fantastic bikes but they're Geo and and it's just not for you and he
got it and it didn't work really you just couldn't make it work you hate it he's like Foxy or yeah yeah and then so
he ended up selling at about I don't know three or four months later and getting a real two nine and now he's in
love and it like fits and it works but yeah but he also still he has he has uh which I heard about this in maybe maybe
you've heard of this Louis and the camera industry it's called gas gear acquisition syndrome
like you just get obsessed with buying new gear all the time so yeah even if he's happy with one bike it's like
bikes are like the best girlfriend you can have you fall in love with one you
ride it hard you you know you put it away it's dangerous you kind of get over it and then you see a new shiny one that
comes out and you're like you know what I'm gonna get that one and this other one's dead to me now I'm gonna push it aside you know so that was kind of fun
part about bikes and you can try everything and try different types maybe that short travel bike but a super
French case had two angle does work best for you maybe that's what you like but yeah I think 95 of people probably
should be on sensible Geo yeah and that's also why I love my real29 is for
all-around trail bike that I can take anywhere like in the world dialed bike yeah like yeah totally I can
make your own switchbacks which you know you can't if it's too long and too slack yeah like a 62 and a half degrees you
can like a sloppy pirate a super slack bike I'm not Jack Sparrow although I would
like to be give me some rum oh man yeah that's funny to think about where's the rum I think well to end this topic I
think it is important to just ride Different Bikes um it's obviously hard to do but if if there's a way you can ride your friend's
bikes or demo different bikes or go to cool bike festivals such as Sedona bike festival or outer bike yeah there's a
lot of them where you can just demo a bunch of different bikes it's really important like if you're into this you're an Enthusiast you're interested
you gotta try different bikes oh yeah that's kind of the end-all be-all takeaway for this sort of it's the spice
of life variety yeah some might call it the spice of life yeah right
well you go in your garage okay I'll take this one today whatever I didn't say just buy 50 bikes yeah no you did
yeah 12 bikes in his garage okay there's only
six half of them or no never mind he did buy 50 bikes buying from worldwide we'd
greatly appreciate you as a customer yeah we have some sort of royalty program or any loyalty royalty if you
are loyal if you were a lawyer royal royal that's
pretty good all right that's trademark we should look at that we're gonna trademark that all right well let's take a quick moment
before listener questions for an ad yay and now a word from our sponsors yo I'm
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love check out and use the code MTB podcast for 20 off that is and now back to the show this listener asks I am in need of a new
drug kryptol argatoll zionatol Continental Tires what drug combination can you suggest for someone who hates
any kind of leakage and ride some rough terrain Moab in southern Utah and by leakage uh yes it doesn't say that
did you what it does say that it does say that for someone who hates any kind of leakage I
think they mean like yeah but he didn't he didn't follow up with and by leakage no I am saying I just wanted to stop you
do you mean like air really good sealant like it's kind of the same thing like Aaron ceiling comes out at the same time
I guess so but regardless he needs some new tires Continental
Tires we've we keep talking about them yeah and you were about to say we made a video I know you were
I should have said we should make a video we are going we're going to okay oh some good news to me gonna force your
hand when uh because I've been riding those tires when the time is right yes yeah Continental has made three Tire
models that man they're just we can't stop talking about them they're good they're on World Cup Downhill podiums
which is the Pinnacle of mountain bike tire testing yeah one um and uh yeah they're they're just
really good Rubber and tread patterns and that's really impressive stuff you have design at all
I just keep I can't for the life of me memorize all the names in the tread
pattern like one of the names are all too similar yeah and the tread patterns are pretty close in appearance a bit but
it's just I don't know it's gonna take me a while um all right I think design itself Continental got so much good stuff right
with these tires and the names are just yeah the only thing holding back from being you could say they went a little
flat oh gosh um well remember what Charlie told us
you know our friend over at uh Continental Continental Continental yeah so it makes more sense
with the name something about the way sorry that was a German Continental is a
German Continental company he did say there was something to do with the tall tall or Continental
I don't know I if you're a German listener uh please send a message to us
what do the names mean yeah what do the names mean
if there's any German speakers out there that have any feedback on these names we
would love to hear it because we're all sitting here wondering what's going on regardless the tires are really good uh
when it comes to which tread patterns make sense Moab well we all rode Moab and it's a lot of rocks yeah it's a lot
it's I think I described Moab to somebody of pile like giant rocks with piles of rocks on top of other smaller
rocks and that's what you ride your your bike on sounds right so uh Xylitol seems
like it would make the most sense design at all would be really good front and rear especially for like summer conditions yeah
um really Rocky terrain yeah if you're riding some a few other stuff you know or even like the upper stuff on the
what's it the plunge the enchilada Whole Enchilada yeah yeah um yeah there's there's dirt on there
there's some soil a lot of the lower part of it if Moab Moab is just rocks but yeah right the the whole enchilada has got so I would everything I would
say Jeff's currently running Xylitol front and rear on his Banshee Titan um I've been running the Krypton in the
front a lot there's a cryptital front tread and a cryptol rear tread so
krypted off front in the front and then the Xylitol on the rear has been my kind
of go-to combo and I think that also worked really well in Moab in southern Utah nice yeah I mean I have the cryptus hall
front and cryptol rear in the front and the rear yes yes exactly
um on my Yeti sb140 that I ran that combo in Sedona which I guess is also Rocky yeah very similar terrain and it
was great given the dirt was like hero dirt in places and I mean the conditions
were pretty good I mean but yeah everything everything probably would have gripped in that scenario but I mean
they still they still worked great yeah if you're looking to try out some new tires or you just want to experiment
yeah Continental these these three models wow yeah they're they're good they're definitely worth trying I think
they're the first the First new tires to really give Maxis a solid run for you know quality and
ride performance so yeah for sure yeah agreed yeah so there you go cool next
question Cool next question could the new SRAM transmission allow bike brands to further optimize bikes uh in Prince's
suspension kinematics Geo Etc around this direct Mount design it is a very interesting question I
guess so I just don't really know off the top of my head what they would really do
I don't my my answer is I don't think they would do anything substantial I
think maybe it just would be small things yeah um I I still think what would be
substantial is removing all of the weight of this derailleur and cassette to the center and lower center of the
bike I.E a gearbox yeah um because if you ride a bike with a gearbox I mean the shifting on any
gearbox bike is not quite optimized correctly just yet uh but man the weight is so good like
having all of the weight right there at the bottom bracket makes the bike handle so much better more logical weights
moved but you remove unsprung weight as well so yeah double whammy yeah right there's like several things that are
significant that change the way the bike rides in a good way if they can move the entire transmission of the bike to where
the bottom bracket is and actually make a transmission yeah I don't know what they could do because
like they kind of with the only thing that I saw is a little bit of a drawback with Sam's transmission
is there's not really a way to adjust chainstay length via a Dropout flip chip now
because of the direct front design on the frame so that yeah kind of went away a little
bit um like Santa Cruz was doing stuff couldn't you sort of move it up though so imagine you have your transmission
direct Mount and then here you know say 20 millimeters in front of it where the
seats stay in the chain stay connected you bolt it the well kind of like the Banshee or the Crestline yeah which yeah
the Crestline uses bolt-on dropouts on the uh the Crestline down-home bike
bolt-on dropouts which can be flopped between 29 and 27.5 to geo-correct them
and that also uses from udh so yeah so it's doable it's doable yeah and and I
believe on the Crestline 27.5 there is room to shorten up that chainsaw a little bit
um so it could be done like that but yeah I don't know I don't know how else they'd really optimize it based on just
the drivetrain yeah I agree I mean aside from like just eliminating cable ports and stuff like
that yeah like but that's simplifying manufacturing yeah it's pretty minor it's not really I mean I think the
bigger optimization was just going one by altogether and eliminating a front [ __ ] need right for sure yeah
geometry change drastically with that so yeah agreed the next big Frontier is
gearboxes yeah I hope so that work exceptionally well yeah well now the
Long Time Coming Sam transmission just made that bar of working exceptionally well even higher yeah because it does
shift so damn well so yeah it's gonna work better than that yeah yeah that's a tough one
all right how about this one what are some of the quote unquote bad habits that can be developed while riding clip
lists I have one oh oh oh another line are there bad
habits that can develop when riding Flats two-part question
um well I can say that there are some people out there that you know when they're bunny hopping they don't Bunny
Hop the proper way and they pull up on their pedals and they think that's how you can money happen that's really like
not how you're supposed totally incorrect way to do that yeah you want to pull up your front that's the absolute most common I'd say that's
probably the most common yeah um with clipless pedals yeah
um I don't know I can't really think of anything else like I think you can also get in the Trap of not waiting your
heels um and kind of relying on them the clips to hold you in place where like when you do
ride Flats you do have to put a lot of emphasis on weighting your heels um as well as just the kind of your your
body balance on your on your placement yeah exactly on your feet and kind of where your weight is definitely
I think that could be a bad habit from clipless yeah bad habits that can develop when riding
Flats I don't know maybe is there such thing as too many Sam Hill drifts
I don't know Jeff does it all the time and he rides clipless so I mean yeah I mean a lot of people ride clipless that
still take their feet off in Corners myself included that's the same thing I mean yeah I mean I wouldn't say like bad
habits I mean I'll say like my my feet come off the pedals if I'm like getting used to him again you know if I'm like
if I'm switching back and forth from Clips to floor that's like first couple rides of like ah my feet thinking a lot
that's like the weight in your heels part waiting your feet part right for sure I always say I'm gonna ride flats for like a good amount of time
especially like off season then I never do but I think I'm going to this year yeah it I think it is the at the end of the
day the smartest thing to do is if you really care about it it's just try and do both because you ride clipless and you learn how to spin a perfect circle
and put the correct amount of sort of muscle input and distribute muscle input
across that whole 360 degree pedal stroke and that's really good and important and then you ride flats and you realize that like cornering and
being comfortable in the bike and being able to throw your feet off when necessary weighting your heels like I don't it's good to just change it up
it's also good to just ride a single speed too right riding a single speed versus a game I can teach you a lot in a
rigid bike you should everyone should also like chain if you really care ride clipless also ride Flats sometimes and
if you really care also ride a rigid single speed every now and then because then you'd pick lines differently
um yeah it's even hard to think about yeah hard yeah hardtail does similar things or rigid yeah it just helps you
pick lines and learn how to you know understand the bike and the terrain and how to react to it in a different way so
you don't get too used to one bike in one setup totally yeah I'm just gonna say the same thing about going and riding my my El Jefe and going back to
my full suspension like I feel like I am working on my fundamentals more when I ride the hardtail like for sure and then
go back and I can ride my full suspension even better mm-hmm yep yeah well true that's all I got for
that one what is one shop tool that you've had to buy the most often
four mils four millimeter Allen is 100 True more
often than t25s uh I think I don't know that was just kind of a joke because
like the four of the five mil always goes missing in the shop yeah it's the most common it's a 10 mil socket of the
Bike World right yeah it just um vanishes I was gonna say a tire lever because yeah before I got the Pedros
ones I would break them all the time yeah ever since I got the pictures ones I haven't broken Pedro just as the
Monopoly on goodness nobody can make a better tile ever it's like don't even try except for that like
carbon Revel one that one's cool that one is pretty like 25 or I don't know I don't even know if they make them anymore but I don't think they do it's
like kind of a marketing boy but yeah that Pedro's one is legit yeah the pages are the best actually the cushcore one
is oh yeah super solid for doing Kush score but yeah also more expensive yeah
really good yeah um and yeah I don't know what other Bike Tool well for a while
I think the tool that I kept having to buy the most was that Park Tool internal routing tools oh yeah because they use
them so much and then you kind of wind them up and you spin them and you pull and you snap yeah so they kind of Kink a
little here in there yeah so that was before everything was tube and tube and we were fishing stuff through I just
remember like Yeti four five Yeti five five like doing that all the time probably dude I was buying like oh and
I'd only use one you buy a kit and it comes with three and that only is one of the three so I just kept like snapping the one
every time like every six months just snap one um but that's kind of gone with now too
yeah thankfully yeah that's true I mean thinking of anything Jeff that you have to buy a lot
when you work on bike uh for those that didn't catch that that
was a derogatory subtle insult because I don't want some jazz because I a subtle jab because I don't work on
bikes very much anymore uh I've been humbling I worked on bikes a lot in my
life but then uh then there came a time where it just made a lot more sense for me to work on different things yeah um I
have a lot of responsibilities and uh important things
you know just make sure we can all pay our mortgages and buy food that's just you know whatever no big deal whatever
uh just that kind of stuff you had to delegate your bike work I had to bike work yeah um so I don't work on
bikes as often anymore but why wait I do have a comment still okay
comment is uh uh just a thought because maybe they didn't mean this when they asked this
question or maybe they did a lot of people in my life have bought kind of too cheap of tools so low quality Allen
wrenches low quality various tools of any kind uh they just they break they
strip they Bend they don't work well and then you feel like oh I gotta keep buying all these new tools it's like
well you just like didn't buy a quality tool to begin with and actually so going cheap especially on wrenches yeah going
cheap On Tools especially Allen wrenches is going to actually damage your expensive bike part yeah it's it's not
worth it at all like so damages the expensive bolt you put it into it wears out and ruins itself faster and yeah
like a Harbor Freight Allen set and yeah so that's turned into circles and my
favorite Allen sets are the wearer yeah sets that we have on the site those are
those are by far the best sharpest engagement like too short sometimes
premium level I like that those have a really nice engagement but it's kind of the same thing with the bike rack like
if you have a 3 000 or more bike and you are going to be tightening bolts like spend totally you know yeah 40 instead
of 20 for a nice allowance yeah it's not not gonna break the bank buy a hit track
instead of a trunk rack that too yeah we made a video on that we did an old one
best ways to transport your bike yes I just got a new tailgate pad I got the
Half Stack by Fox and the Overlander color and the Overlander color yeah which ended up looking a little bit more
like skin I think it looks good for what it's worth yeah it looks all right it does
look good I wish it was a little more brown but you know really but it is convenient I just yeah it's a different look and then I only ever put one or two
bikes on it so works out there you go I like that thing nice all right next question thoughts on the second hand
bike Market currently um yeah we're kind of rough I guess well
it's not great crazy days out there in the bike industry um I made an ask Jeff anything YouTube
video I don't know a month or so ago and I talked about the bike industry it's in a bit of a it's in a bit of turmoil
right now and a contraction and the secondhand bike Market is uh kind of a
glowing highlight of that because a whole bunch of people bought new bikes or just any bike throughout the should
we call them the peak pandemic years I don't I don't know it just depends pandemic years last few years there you
go and now they realize they're not riding as often so they just tossed them up for sale and so the The Used Bike
Market is quite flooded um and that's uh causing a turmoil for
that market for the new bike market and that's the industries it's like a
double-edged sword because you have new bikes that are discounted so people like
why would you go buy a used bike if you could buy a new bike that's discounted it's just adding to the indecision that
there already was yeah because you're like oh there's so many good used bikes oh well but there's so many good new bikes 20 off yeah so yeah it's crazy
it's kind of tough um yeah so yeah it's not great not great
but you know everybody's gotta buy them eventually right maybe
that was just overproduction of bikes and bike parts yeah in a while because there was over forecasting check with us
in fall [Laughter] things should hopefully pan out by 2024.
speaking with you you're looking at a very used bike we have a pink bike page and we put all of our demo bikes on
there oh that is actually true just for people that thought that might have been a joke we have a pink bike page for each
shop right so our California store Nevada store and Pennsylvania store all have a pink Pike page where we monitor
like add stuff to the pink bike buy and sell and we put our demo bikes on there uh staff bikes um various random
components that came back with a tiny scratch or a damaged box or stuff like that so yeah we also have on our website
the mega deals collection which isn't which isn't it just bikes but it is stuff that like if you're one of those
deal hunter type of people yeah yeah it's there yeah or if you go to our demo
bike program page you will see all the bikes and the ones that have links are for sale oh I did not know that actually yeah how
is anyone supposed to know that I'm marketing it right now yeah and uh I
get all the money well no if you're just like on the page and you like see there's a link and you can click it I guess I could maybe write
hey this one's for sale well one of the one quick important thing to note that since we're on the topic of plugs if we
us selling uh used bikes whether they're demo bikes or staff bikes still come with the full warranty of that bike yes
thank you for mentioning that whereas if you buy a bike from you know John Smith on pink bike you ain't got no warranty
so um just something to note you ain't got no no all right let's move on to the
next question oh I really like this one what got you guys into mountain biking
really really great question all right in 30 seconds or less okay go ahead I'll go first yeah okay so um well
I actually first uh had a BMX bike and I was riding Motocross with my friends
growing up and one of my buddies got a Kona sneaky Junior that was probably the coolest thing ever seen it was so cool
so bad that was the peak of kona full foxy Factory 2004 coolest bike I had
ever seen and then uh yeah I got a mountain bike after that it's probably like I don't know 10 or 11 years old
went to a mammoth and uh rode the park there for the first time and yeah I was I was hooked so I've been shredded ever
since shred ever since huh you said 30 seconds or less I think I nailed it yeah those yep uh my story
is that uh yeah I grew up riding BMX and Motocross and I had a buddy of mine who
him and his dad had mountain bikes his dad was a mountain biker and he's like okay we should go ride these and I was like yeah it looks cool looks like a
dirt bike with no motor so I wrote I think I was 13 and I wrote them and I was hooked I was like that was the funnest thing ever it's like this
awesome combination and then just got way into the sport loved it so 13 years old I got into it what about you Wills
um grew up running a lot of BMX bikes that kind of turned to dirt jumping into like a dual solemn race but then I like
got out of it all together for a while and then uh just kind of riding bikes a
shop in Ventura where I grew up uh called middle Mountain the owner was like Hey you are like pretty quick at
bikes and you have bike handling skills you should go do mountain bike race and he like gave me his bike and I went into the mountain bike race and I was kind of
hooked so I did like a couple years cross-country racing and then I realized that there's a lot more to mountain biking than racing in circles and
spandex um so uh yeah just kind of they branched
out and rolled all the mountain bikes after that all the bikes oh yeah Trevor Trevor done in metal Mountain definitely
got me into riding mountain bikes it's red yeah that's really cool of them do that let you borrow the bike nice
all right read the next question jrad next question I was wondering if you could talk about
your preferred bike storage methods when you have them in your garages or in the shop it's better to hang them on the
wall via the front wheel standing on the ground in a wheel saddle or your personal methods you choose the pros and
cons I'll go first at home I have two bikes basically um I think it's a oh my
gosh I'm forgetting the name it's like a uh clip oh do you know what I'm talking about the the thing that I on the wall
like you mounted to the wall like what we have here yeah we have here no but you you it still rests on the ground the
back wheel at clog or something like that um you basically like almost pop a
wheelie on the bike and then it goes vertically up against the wall and it just grabs the tire um I have two of those and I have three
hooks hanging bikes hanging from the ceiling and I think two one or two on the ground
six bikes in my garage within a two-car garage and two cars I got your beat yeah you do
but you have no cars in the garage they don't fit um yeah because Liam's garage looks like
a bike shop like a bike shop yeah um well I guess I'd prefer to have all
my bikes on the ground but that doesn't make sense spatially right so that would be my preferred method just a little
rack sliding The Wheels On The Ground um but I have six bikes on the wall on
the toe Peak I was just looking them up topi Swing Away racks or like hooks that sounds right like we have them here at
the shop too you like hook the front wheel and they can actually like rotate yeah like rotate the bike closer to the
wall so like it's just a handlebar width sticking out so I have six of those on the wall two up top so I have eight on
the wall total and then I think usually three or four bikes in a like a just a
normal wheel rack so that's not all mine let me say to be clear my roommate my
roommate also has six bikes and I have six bikes so there's like 12 in the garage
motorbikes a lot of bikes mate um but yeah yeah I mean I think in a perfect world
bike storage on the ground is great it's convenient it's easy and makes sense yeah um I have hooks in my garage well
not at the moment because I just moved but prior to moving I had hooks in my garage I would just hang them on the front of the rear wheel and that was
like sort of the longer term storage but the bikes that I wrote often I just leaned against the wall yeah just left
them on the ground yeah but against the walls easy and if you have space for it that's what I did so yeah and pros and
cons I mean for me like I haven't had any problems having my bikes vertical I know some people have problems with like
their brakes you know getting air bubbles in them or whatever but if your brakes are incorrectly bled right and
you put the bike vertically yeah then you will now know that your brakes are incorrectly black you'll be exposed
your suspension seals are dry and rotting they might start leaking more that makes sense they're on the wall for
sure um but yeah I have six bikes hung on the wall there's no issues ever from
paying them so for sure it's kind of a kind of a myth yeah for sure well I guess not myth but like maintenance your
bikes man yeah yeah how about this one I was curious if you could compare the
feeling of CBF suspension going downhill to riding another non-cbf bike with an O chain is it similar due to the lack of
chain growth through travel with CBF also I would love to hear more stories of being the cat and before you say anything Jeff I did not add the last
part I swear I did not I will show you you still put this question in here because of that no I did not I thought
it was a good fundamental question people are figuring out how to get their questions prioritized and this is not
the first this is not the first request I have had for more beam content now
that is live no it's not um I don't know
I don't really know fully how to answer this because uh there's so many there's so many
different bikes yeah it's so hard to like just compare one to the other um
CBF does feel really good all around CBF is what Revel uses for the suspension design as well as Canfield bikes
um that being said like I don't know it's really hard to
measure Kickback on bikes which is what the O chain slightly eliminates right so
it's hard to measure that on a CBF and CBF doesn't exactly eliminate
like chain growth does it it doesn't have a very far rearward axle path or
forward axle path which does have low amounts of chain growth right but
um yeah it's kind of hard to like answer that fully um that's an entire podcast it is an entire
podcast and you have to do so much testing like in the same trail with with
CBF with a chain CBF without a chain of similar-ish bike that might have a
little bit more chain growth with o chain and then that bike without a chain like it's yeah it's a little bit splitting
hairs it's definitely if you're you know at the peak of your game as a racer you
should be splitting headers um however whoever asks this question I would say if you're interested in this
topic uh some resources so one Nico maloli who's a professional World Cup Downhill racer that we sponsor he wrote
a really in-depth review and just like a I don't know opinion piece and article on o chain uh he was also on our podcast
and we talked all about high pivot bikes and chain growth and suspension kinematics those two things so if you
just go to the worldwide secular site and uh type in Nico podcast maybe um I'm
trying to think how we can yeah or you can use the Google machine you can go to any MTV podcast and if you click on the
photo and the blog that is just of us it'll take you to all of the empty podcast episodes yeah and the one Nico
is on and then the article he wrote about ochain I would tell you to look at those and I would also tell you to look
at we made a video All About CBF in particular because it is a pretty incredible suspension platform and we
made a YouTube video all about it a couple years ago a few years ago and we had you know we had Chris Canfield
himself who designed it as well as one of the original engineers at Revel who sort of brought it to Life along with
Chris Canfield and the rebel guys so I would just look at all those pieces of content and you can like really get into
the Weeds on this stuff because it is a little bit splitting hairs but it is really good interesting stuff if you're
interested in splitting hairs and yeah learning more about suspension kinematics would you say there'd be a
bigger difference um like not considering the ocean and braking forces between like a CBF bike
and a non-cbf bike like brake Jack or whatever you want to call it yeah CBF also has very lots of low amounts of
anti-rise which is brake Jack or break you know interference with the suspension and that also has a lot to do
with the you know kind of more up and down uh wheel path versus going
backwards or forwards because with going backwards or forwards and then breaking you're actually locking your suspension
in kind of that zone so um that makes sense yeah
all right and one quick intermission before the last question because I have
to go to the bathroom all right this question would be
considered least but not last least but not last for all the people that have trucks like
the Tacoma how many do you think still use a platform bike rack versus a tailgate pad what are the advantages
slash disadvantages would you be shunned for using a platform rack on a truck
well there are definitely some pros and cons if you are someone I think who likes to
camp in the back your truck a platform rack is the best way to go because you don't have to like mess with your bikes
all the time yeah I I pretty much have never seen a truck with a platform rack unless there's other stuff in the truck
yeah so like if you have a camper shell on there yeah if you're putting a whole ton of luggage in there and then you put
your bikes on the on the uh tail on the uh tow hitch rack hitch rack hit track
the other one but yeah they're so convenient like the easiest
possible way oh yeah and they're cheap they're like yeah super cheap you take your bike you go put it on there yeah
you're done yeah yeah that's cool um I was gonna say the only reason why you would run a platform rack versus
tell you pad would I'd say would be like a gravel bike or a road bike like yeah
kind of better fitted yeah those don't work all that well on yeah and there's sometimes the carbons like maybe just
not in reinforced enough to take that yeah mountain bikes over proper tailgate
Pad but yeah that's yeah road gravel drop our bikes yeah or if you're just carrying any yeah like a diverse array
of bikes right like you don't know a city bike right your bike like I have a North Shore rack
um that I'd never use because you can't really put a road well now you can they made like an adapter for road bikes but
for the longest time you can put a road bike on a North Shore rack so I mean I get that that's why I use the cool out rack for that kind of stuff but yeah I
mean advantageous disadvantages like you have little things sticking out of your truck I mean that's about it I don't know
advantages you can still use your bed for all that stuff like if you're traveling you're going on a trip to bed
space if you need to use your bed like yeah if you and you're going with some buddies and you have four bikes like it'll you know realize it takes up your
whole truck bed I mean yeah it does going to Sedona we had three bikes four people and we were stuffed in Jeff's
truck in a Tacoma yeah when you have five foot bed I think it's a five foot bed yeah yeah
weird stuff like any more bags or anything we would have been like yeah looking for space four people in a
Tacoma and four bikes um on a road trip that's about as much as you can go yeah with a tailgate pad
yeah um yeah you're like then you're you're sliding all of your luggage in between the bikes and the bed basically it's a
good thing three of the four of us were like probably smaller than average humans
small for the average American yeah I mean yeah I guess the the exception
would be like if you had one of those roof racks on your truck like above the cab then you could probably fit more
luggage and stuff there but like that's not ideal yeah at all and roof racks are
just a hassle you're probably better off just getting a higher track cumbersome to put your bike on and off no I'm talking about for luggage
yeah Overland bro Overland bro bro you over there but yeah I mean you I think
yeah in that case you're probably just better off getting a hit track and then you know whatever else you want yeah like my buddy has one of those shot the
soft top uh things for honest Tacoma and like he has a tailgate pad and yeah it's a pain to get bikes in and out of there
yeah like yeah if you're gonna put a camper shell on your truck then just yeah that's when you get a hit track
yeah and you just toss the tailgate pad yeah agreed there you go well that's it
that's all for episode 110 of the mountain bike podcast thank you very much if you've made it this far please
leave a comment and say Liam's hair is looking super long all right
um and uh what what was our what was the other thing what were you gonna comment
about the review yeah oh you're gonna tell him to leave a review yeah you can leave a review screenshot it uh you know
send it to podcast worldwide and we'll give you a 15 gift card code discount code whatever
you want for the worldwide Cyclery website also uh somebody left a review
for the podcast got the 15 code and used it to buy a forestall which is like a
fourteen thousand dollar e-bike no way yeah seriously isn't that funny they used a 15 code on that dollar code I
just thought it was ironic it was just like funny I think it's a bigger story here is 15 bucks off this fourteen thousand dollars
I thought it was funny I think the bigger story here is that uh discounts are allowed on those bikes
that if you can sneak one in there yeah
um but yeah thank you for listening we appreciate it share with a friend if you liked it thanks for watching if you
watched thank you very much talk to you guys next time


April 17, 2023

MTB Podcast › Revel › Video ›

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