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All Things Revel Bikes As We Interview Founder Adam Miller + Bike Industry Insights... Episode 92 [Podcast]

MTBpodcast · All Things Revel Bikes As We Interview Founder Adam Miller + Bike Industry Insights... Episode 92

Join us for a fresh episode of the MTB Podcast! In this episode, we host Revel Bikes founder Adam Miller and discuss all things Revel Bikes as well as the bike industry and manufacturing in general. You don't want to miss this one!

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Revel Bikes: https://www.revelbikes.com/

Submit any and all questions to podcast@worldwidecyclery.com

If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!

[Music] ladies and gentlemen welcome to the mtb

podcast episode 92 presented and hosted by worldwide cyclery i am jeff joined by

i'm jared and liam and adam with revel bikes so we have adam miller the founder

of revel bikes with us today and we're going to ask them all things about the bike industry bicycle manufacturing and

really just make them answer hard questions questions that you can't just find the answers to simply using the

google machine are you prepared for this adam i guess let's go all right liam jared are you ready ready

ready all right dj green goblin play a sound effect

so adam you're the founder of revel bikes when was rebel bikes created

well let's see we launched the brand in march of 2019 but we started working on it many

years before that it took quite a while to come up with our first two models at the time we were making titanium

bikes under the y cycles brand name which we're still doing and it's going very well but we were

selling some titanium bikes we were building carbon bikes prototyping testing it was a very interesting three

years so really i think i started in 2015 i started working on revel

and then launched in 2019 and here we are now about just over three years later yeah

nice it's surprising to think how young the revel brand is because it seems like it's actually gotten really big really

fast and become so well known in a short short term which i'm amazed it's super

exciting for us we actually just celebrated our third birthday party at the sedona bike fest last last weekend

and we had we had a live band and a cake and all that fun stuff for the third birthday of rebel bites yeah

that's awesome and so before that i i remember making that sort of initial video about rebel bikes on youtube and

talking about all the various people in the bike industry that you know helped revel become a thing and it wasn't it

wasn't just uh you know a handful of random guys that are like let's start a bike company but you yourself had had

you know you already had y cycles and you'd had another company proud of that right borealis correct yep yeah so and

then there was another part of like partners involved that were former engineers and there was a whole bunch of talented people that knew what they were

doing sort of behind the brand it wasn't it was not a quote unquote startup with no talent it was a it was a startup with

a stacked roster yeah yeah i i tried to i mean i've i've been like a total bike

geek since i was i think 11 years old and super obsessed with bikes and had a had a bike company i had an ebay

business when i was a kid in high school selling bike parts uh but i kind of by the time i was ready to start revel i

sort of realized what i what i was good at and what i wasn't good at and i tried to find people to fill fill the roles of

all that stuff i wasn't good at so that was you know a lot of engineering and carbon expertise um a lot of people that

helped me with asian manufacturing connections and business stuff i mean i i didn't have an mba or anything like

that so we i tried to piece together a lot of friends and connections in the industry to help me start this brand and

it we launched it when i mean we were all amazed when we launched we sold out of all of our bikes in like three days

and we thought they were gonna be it was gonna be enough for like the whole summer and we were like oh wow we have a real bike brand all of a

that's cool yeah that rolls perfectly into our first question and these questions are kind of from us three as well as all of our listeners and the

first one was what was your motivation to start a bike brand yeah it was actually kind of an accident

i think i mean um a lot of us have been you know in a bike

since we were little kids like my parents got me my first bike you know when i was like nine years old i got put in like a kids bike program and and i

grew up in anchorage alaska where biking was not very common especially mountain biking but i got into this kids bike

program as a kid and i just got like fully addicted to it like i wasn't very good at other sports but i

i could mountain bike pretty well like it just kind of worked for me it clicked got a job in a bike shop when i was 14

like as soon as i was old enough to work and just got obsessed with everything i had this ebay business where i'd like

take bikes from people and like take them all apart and you know sell all the individual parts and then you know give people commission i started that when i

was like 11 years old and i think my parents were like terrified that i got a paypal account back then because it was you know sending money over the internet

was weird back in the day um but i was just like really into bikes and i ended up just to fast forward a bit i went to

school in uh in colorado springs colorado and was able to like race mountain bikes all over and being a kid

from alaska who hadn't biked all over the country it was like it was just eye-opening it was really cool so i i

kind of was trying to figure out a way to you know keep on doing more things with bikes so i started when i was in college

my junior year i started my first business called borealis it was a carbon fiber fat bike brand

and i started that thinking it would be a small hobby business and it kind of just took off and it went really really well

that was kind of right place right time right because fat bikes really had a moment at some point there they had they

still exist but for a while there they were they had a moment where they were all the rage they were all the rage and

i got so ridiculously lucky with the timing we were the first company to launch a carbon fat bike and and uh we

made a lightweight bike it was you know at the time modern geometry you know still had like a 71 degree head angle

which is laughable now but uh we yeah very lucky timing and then um i ended up selling that business uh end of 2014

early 2015 and then i was kind of thinking you know this is super cool i got to travel like all over the world to

asia and europe and and you know everywhere in the united states to like ride bikes and sell bikes and i thought

now i want to do this but with the bikes that i want to ride which was surprisingly not just fat bikes i wanted

to make some full suspension mountain bikes and gravel bikes and different you know titanium bikes and so i figured

let's let's do it let's start this brand that you know and make the bikes that i wanted to ride

yeah nice that's rad i like that super rad i like that a lot it's a good story and makes a ton of sense and

yeah it was kind of supposed to be a hobby from the beginning and and it was for many years and then you know when we

launched revel in 2019 it very quickly became not at all a you know a hobby

business it was it was it was real which we were hoping for but i thought it would take many more years than it did and within days i mean we started

working with you guys you know in 2019 and and and i was you know amazed like

well we get to work with worldwide cyclery and you guys want to sell our bikes and then it just snowballed from there and and

here we are now and we have bikes sold and i think we have 36 uh uh international distributors um 36

different countries that we sell our bikes and um all 50 states uh have dealers in them and

we're just getting started so i'm excited for what's next yeah that's rad no i mean i was super excited to hear

about you guys initially because i had always been sort of a canfield bikes fan prior and and was familiar with cbf the

suspension platform that you guys utilize and yeah i just love brands with good stories and and you guys having you

know that suspension platform and the way you did it the bikes you had the talent you had on the team all of that

was just kind of immediately appealing to us and um yeah i mean i remember having a conversation with liam about it

years ago and i was like oh this is a brand that's going to go somewhere we let's get in this let's do this let's talk to these people let's do something

i i wish you told me that back in you know 2018 or 19 when we first started talking because i had a lot of sleepless

nights in there as we were getting ready to launch this brand and i you know i was convinced i loved the bikes i met chris canfield back in 2015

and rode rode one of uh the canfield bikes and within like a hundred yards in the parking lot i was convinced cbf was

cbf was it like i knew i wanted to make a full suspension mountain bike company but i didn't want to just use another suspension platform

that was the same as everybody else and so i was kind of taking my time and when i rode that cbf bike i was like

cool this is perfect it's the best suspension system i've ever ridden so i decided to license that from chris

canfield use it on a more modern carbon uh semi mainstream if that's the right

word mountain bike um but it was it was it was an interesting few years getting getting ready to launch i mean it took a long time and we

we tried to take our time and do it right and when we were finally ready to launch it just i mean that conversation

that you and i had jeff was i was like oh my god we get you know this is it like worldwide soccer one stellar bikes

it was so it was it was sweet yeah yeah that's cool i mean we we've always tried i i just really admire and enjoy the

brands in the bike industry that are run by cool people trying to make great product and

cool enough like a lot of the mountain bike industry has that there's a number of brands that have people running the brands and who are developing the

products that are actual riders and actually care and i really enjoy that about the bike industry because there's

still just passion filled in it sometimes there's the bad side to that is there's a lot of lack of business

sense but the good side of that is you have really good really good products you guys laugh because you know how true

that is but uh there's really good products because of it and uh yeah just really enjoyable people to be around so

yeah i mean that's that's one of my favorite things in the industry that was like the most fun part of starting rebel bikes was actually like for the

first several years um the first five employees we all lived together at my house in carbondale like for several

years because we tried to save money you know everything was going into the business bootstrap um so we'd have our you know our our

all company all hands meetings were like around my dinner table at 11 at night oftentimes like with it you know maybe

skype with one of our asian factories you know with all of us and we'd drink beer and our first prototypes would show

up and we built them in my kitchen i mean we were just all living together and passion was yeah definitely the right

word i mean we wanted to make good bikes that we wanted so it was super fun that's cool rewarding i love it

liam you want to hit him with the next question we got lined up yes um

what innovation do you think is left on the table for the coming years in the bike industry so

we kind of have this thing where you know bikes have gotten to this point and they're kind of plateaued right yeah

liam and i are slightly pessimistic yeah interesting are you pessimistic jared are you

optimistic i think i am slightly optimistic i think that the technology in mountain bikes is

still relatively young and there's still places to go um cheers to that jared cheers i agree

thank you well we think that they're already so good that it's going to be really incremental that they're getting

any better buy so i don't know i'm curious here compared compared to 10 years ago to now

absolutely it's going to be incremental improvements but i think as a whole the bicycle industry is still very young and very juvenile when we

compare ourselves to you know motorcycles or the car industry and we're just not there yet i mean mountain bike was invented only in the 70s i mean

that's way later than didn't really even come into its own until the 90s yeah yeah we're young we're all new to this thing

um manufacturing companies are new to it global supply chain is new to it um my immediate thought

with this question is what innovation what innovation is left on the table and right now for the foreseeable next couple years it's supply chain i mean

it's getting these bikes we're all struggling with even being able to deliver mountain bikes right now

so i think and companies are truly investing and innovating in supply chain management

which is really boring no one wants to talk about that i mean we want to get cool bikes to go you know shred trails after work

but there's so much effort being put into that so i think in the short term it's going to be delivering products

beyond that i i think there's going to be some pretty neat things in the manufacturing side of products and the materials um

composites and things like that that we're just starting to see rebel bikes we're dabbling in that quite a bit we launched

our fusion fiber wheels and i think there's going to be a lot more materials innovation yeah that's cool

because there's definitely a lot of room to grow there in terms of sustainability and quality materials and all of that

stuff and hopefully cost eventually i think it will take some time but you know with different types of manufacturing in different places

they're manufactured there is potential for costs to come down in the future so maybe not like uh innovation plateau

in the rider's sense perhaps but like an innovation plateau on the manufacturing side where like you know where like you

said costs come down and that kind of thing yeah i think so and and to the to the point of on the riders

uh you know as parts get better and as bikes get better and suspension and shifting like that's going to trickle down so in a few years maybe a bike that

you know you now cost ten thousand dollars we're gonna get that same ride quality at four or five thousand dollars and that would be really cool totally

and it'll be made more sustainably yeah i hope so just a better environmental impact yeah we can hope absolutely yeah

we can hope so hmm that's cool so so i mean i guess

you know liam and i we don't we're really thinking about that in our heads we were thinking about how much better is the bike going to

ride and work do you think that that'll kind of be plateaued out or which is very incremental i mean you're right there

you know to your point you have you have a much larger sort of perspective on this than we do so your answers of

better materials more eco-conscious friendly materials and manufacturing processes supply chain management and

bikes that say the way a bike performs that cost ten thousand dollars now will actually perform and work that good at

three thousand dollars that's awesome so you're right i guess there is innovation there but

in terms of like will a ten thousand dollar bike ride significantly better and perform

significantly better in five years from now or it will will it be nearly the same maybe i'm like too optimistic but

since this is my career in life is like figuring out how to make a bike ride better and i obsess over it all day long

i i think it will you know even several you know a few years ago we all thought oh bikes are so good like they can't get any better i mean look where

we are now compared to five years ago with full suspension bikes i remember selling uh 29 or full suspension bikes

back in like 2008 at the bike shop i worked at and we were we were all like man these are the best like 29er full

suspension bikes if you try riding one of those now like they're awful you can't like they're so inefficient you can barely go uphill you can barely turn

corners and the bike industry we figured it out like we can make an efficient pedaling 29 or 160 170 bike that you can that

goes uphill like a rocket ship so i would like to think it it might be more incremental than it was 10 years

ago but i think we're going to see some pretty neat improvements yeah all right cool well i like your optimism

we can check back in in 10 years and see if we all still agree yeah see how that question aged

yeah yeah exactly maybe 14 years back to 2008 sounds about

right yeah perfect well a couple quick questions if you were not in the bike industry what industry would you be in

oh that's like my nightmare to think about um if revel bikes and y cycles just all of a sudden didn't exist

tomorrow what would you do yeah business would you start or where would you look for a job finance i would be in new york

city wall street no way dude thanks i cannot see you in a suit adam breaking it now i can't see me in a suit no way

why you just that just interests you it's just an interesting area that was my my path i mean i was always like

really into math and numbers and um and uh when i went to college you know i

had a plan that after sophomore year i'd go get an internship in new york city at some big bank and learn how hedge funds

work and now that's like i could not possibly imagine doing it

that sounds like so boring not nearly as fun as rebel bikes i get to wear flip-flops to work every day right i

don't think that would fly in the new york city office building so yeah keep buying bikes from us so i don't have to do that

awesome jared you want the next classic listener question i'd love to

this listener says i plan to keep my ranger for the rest of my life are you prepared for that warranty period

the fact that people want to buy a bike and keep it for the rest of their life makes me so happy like that's absolutely

awesome um yeah of course we're prepared like if something goes wrong we'll take care of the customer absolutely awesome

yeah i mean i love my ranger too so totally support what this guy's saying

i've had my ranger longer than i think i've ever had any bike which is insane which is

a year and a half when i see questions like this i'm like

no one keeps a bike more than a year or two for like a carburetor suspension bike but we're all so like bike obsessed

in the bike industry you know you get a new bike every year because we always want the latest and greatest we're pretty insulated

i did keep my first ranger for a full year i sold it i rode another bike for i

think six weeks and then i got my second ranger

back to the best bike out there yeah i mean where we live and ride most often it's a

pretty fantastic bike yeah so it's it's hard to stray away from it it is as the main as the main daily driver it's the

go-to yep it is well so an another thing another project you guys are working on you got a lot of

things going on obviously with revel bikes and y cycles but revel wheels so you have usa made fusion fiber rims

which launched in march of 2020 that are recyclable whereas traditional carbon anything is not really recyclable what's

the quick scoop on those rims and that particular material yeah i'm super excited about rebel wheels it was kind

of like i i've always wanted to have a bit of an environmental and sustainability focus with with our business and

revel wheels was the first super tangible thing i mean we always and we still are very conscious of our

packaging and the materials we use and using recyclable uh packaging and and now we've gotten all plastic out of our

packaging except for zip ties we're still working on a way to get rid of that but rebel wheels is the first thing

where hey the actual product is made out of this material that is significantly more environmentally friendly really

from a manufacturing standpoint actually most of the environmental benefits come from how the products made and then with

the added benefit that the material itself can be recycled really down cycled and turned into other

products it can't be turned into a rim again because the fibers get chipped up in short fibers instead of long fibers

so we launched our first two models of those rims in march of 2020 a 30 millimeter 27.5 and 29er we now

have a 27 mil uh rim which pairs well with the ranger like a down country style bike and then a 23 millimeter

gravel wheel the material is it it's a thermoplastic so it's still

carbon fiber but instead of using epoxy as the bonding agent it uses a nylon

material and that takes out all the toxic chemicals all sorts of stuff that's bad for the

environment with like manufacturing waste it also takes about 20 seconds to

cure the rim in the mold instead of about 45 minutes like a traditional carbon fiber rim or bike would take so

it's much less energy that goes into creating the product and then any scrap from the manufacturing process any

broken you know wheels from the test lab or if you do break a rim in the field all of that

can be very easily recycled sweet and they ride really nice they got this really like quiet damp

ride quality because there's none of that brittle epoxy in there so that's kind of like we actually forget to talk about how well they ride like we talk

about how they're made yeah but they're well freaking we made a whole youtube video on them great i'm glad you did because i get so

focused on the manufacturing instead of like how it works in the field oh it's funny when we made that video i mean i i

really think we've made a lot of various different videos on rims and wheels and especially carbon rims and wheels and i

think really only two have ever stood out to me and it was you know your guys's rims because the material and the feel and cost and weight and all that

stuff is just a unique interesting story there the other ones were the zip30 motors those actually had a pretty novel

and unique design and ride feel but man all the rest of them were uh they're

pretty similar yeah pros and cons differences here and there but down the same path yeah yeah

yeah they're a little similar they're not trying to be different really yeah well maybe they don't want to be but it's not

to put it i guess maybe that's not likely to put it heavily a truth bomb

so with the the rims being able to be recycled or you said down cycled are there any plans

to make other parts out of this uh down cycled fusion fiber rims that are broken

or scraps yeah there actually is quite a bit it's something we've been working on and i will say throughout the pandemic

we've been a little bit delayed on on on really pushing that because you know focusing on supply chain and

all those boring things that no one likes to talk about but um there's already parts being made out of

the recycled fusion fiber um so we partnered with our manufacturer css composites in

in gunnison utah and they they developed this material and we worked with them to develop the

first rims uh it was kind of funny it was like six or eight months after i was talking with joe who who started the

company out in utah and he was we were saying yeah well you know we'll design the rooms this way he developed the material in the process and

um we worked together to make the rims and about six or eight months after we were working on it he said you know by the way adam these are recyclable and i

kind of was like oh like what like i was already sold on all this other cool stuff and how well they wrote and how strong they were and the cool

manufacturing process and made in america and now they're recyclable like that's the cherry on top that's that's super cool uh and totally fits in with

what we want to do with rebel bikes as a company so um right now and we don't talk about

this too much but a lot of the recycled material from the manufacturing process is being used for different parts of

firearm manufacturing and some helicopters and aerospace parts so we are looking into it for some bicycle

products currently it's fairly cost prohibitive uh because of the type of steel you know

high-end tool steel you need to make molds out of it but we have a few pretty neat things in

the works that i think in the next couple years are going to make it much more possible for us to come out with more parts

sweet nice i love my recycled tire levers which was a joke right and then

it ended up becoming more than a joke it was pretty funny well we wanted to make the recycled tire levers to show off

that they we weren't like blowing smoke like we're saying these are recyclable rims and they actually are so we decided

to make the tire lever and we sold like so many in the first two hours after launching and then we i don't know we

had like maybe 50 of them in stock and we were we got like a six month back order in a day and we were like all right we didn't think like it was more

just to show off and then they're really cool it's a great tire lover super strong

that actually is funny enough a problem with tire levers because if the plastic ones can break quite easily and then the

metal core ones can damage the rims as soon as the rubber peels off of them and so that's true it makes sense for uh it

was like way more practical than we thought we were like we'll just make this to show off and and it actually is

a very practical awesome product yeah that's cool what about brake levers oh no one those aren't as like commonly

replaceable or upgradeable as i guess they used to be i always think of that because do you remember i think what the brand was

called danger boy this was just like an old old-time uk mountain bike brand and they used to

make these really rad sort of ergonomically shaped brake levers that you could really easily put on

all these different model brakes did they have them in anodized purple though oh yeah no they did they came in all the

different colors and they had sort of these really cool cutouts where your finger would sit in really nicely and

and no one does that anymore i think that brand's long gone but no one does that but i always just we should bring

that back that's a great idea yeah i love anodized brake levers that was like yeah story of my childhood on bikes yeah

yeah it was it was it was totally the story of a lot of people dang yeah well liam just looked uh these up and the

article on pink vikings from 2005. jeff you just aged yourself

i remember racing a uh uh a norba national downhill race which is also another way to age myself

because that organization has gone so far long gone um and and i in in brian

had utah and i had those levers and i crashed in like the main gnarly rock garden of of that race and just

completely botched and bent my danger boy lever and i was so bummed about it i bet you were traumatized i was i was

dramatic they look sick though aren't they cool yeah yeah i don't really know much about that brand other than they

made just these really cool rad unique cnc aluminum components and brake levers and stuff back in yeah back when i was a

teenager i was racing as a junior x when i was 16 or 17. yeah you could say they look super ergonomic super ergonomic but yeah

i mean i was going to say they have places for two fingers which i mean people don't really don't need that anymore yeah brakes are a lot better

than they were 20. i never used i never used two fingers on there anyway but just having your main finger on like the

last little curvature part that was nice that is nice all right well we'll add that to the list of fusion fiber recycle parts

i'll take a royalty on that yeah yeah [Laughter] oh that's red fusion fiber all right we

will do a quick word from maybe our sponsor maybe not and now a word from

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which means you can pretty much get some rad stuff for free check it out ketlmtn.com thanks and now back to the

show all right are you ready for this next question adam oh i'm ready all right so

asian manufacturing is prominent in the bicycle industry and not everyone knows why or understands the whole picture can

you shed some light on that yeah i'd love to actually

i'd say one of my favorite parts of starting a few bike companies now has been the whole asian manufacturing side

of things like it's this whole different world across the globe and they make i mean everything that we own is made in

asia like just about just about everything that we use our phones everything is made over there and so the

first time i went to china to visit a manufacturing company i was just like a kid on christmas like just blown away um

i think i've been there now 27 times and all that was before covet because for the last two years we haven't been able

to travel to asia so we've gotten really good at video calls and things like that but um we do make all of our bikes in

either china or vietnam and i like to say we're proudly manufactured in china i think there's this whole thing in the

bike world and really in all consumer products where it's almost like you know you don't want to

talk about it like oh it's made in china but we don't want to admit that and the thing is china

makes the best carbon fiber bikes in the world like hands down there is no debate they've been doing it

longer than anybody else they have more of a skilled workforce it's a skilled labor for the most part uh there's a few

very good factories and they're all in china and so i i've really enjoyed

creating relationships with different uh people and factories and partners over there and kind of working with them to

develop products and it's something that isn't talked about too much but it's just this massive important part of how

all bikes are made yeah that's cool i mean i think one of the stigmas that is often misconstrued

is people always think like oh what's what's this labor like what's what's going on over there why is it so cheap

and i don't know i mean the more i've learned about it and experienced it it's really because of this amazing level of

efficiency and just manufacturing expertise it's not child labor

yeah i get that a lot people like when i go to china they're like oh you're you're a horrible person and i'm like well one

everything's made in china too it's it's really not horrible at all by any means the main one of the main factors we work

with actually has a full organic farm on the property there's 800 workers there and every worker gets three vegetarian

organic meals every day they have better maternity leave than we do here in the u.s

by a significant amount i mean that's not saying much but it's better than here in the u.s they

it's it's so much better and more wholesome and feel good than than i think you know the media or

the sigmas make it out to be i mean when we go there it's you know it's hugs all around we have big dinners every night i

mean it's they're part of our company i mean they're we contract with these manufacturers but it's the same as when

i you know we have company christmas parties we have company parties with our manufacturers in china and it's people are proud of their work i mean our

contacts at all of our factories they'll send me you know articles on pink bike or worldwide or something like you know the second we see them like they they

see it too like they're proud of these bikes that their companies are creating and for me i

don't care what country or race or you know who makes the product as long as they're really proud of it and treated

well and our factories i mean we choose really good factories but they definitely live up to that like they're

just as psyched on the bikes that we make as we are here in colorado yeah yeah that's really interesting to

hear you say that who's been there 27 times because it's it's not easy to do but i always like to not judge things

until i really have a very thorough understanding of the topic and it's uh i think a mistake a lot of people fall

into with asian manufacturing of any product whatsoever is you know the people who are kind of

the loudest about promoting the stigmas have never actually been there never actually been there and met these

actual human beings and never been there and seen what's going on and and so i don't know with anything i i try to uh

you know keep my voice down until i really thoroughly understand it and and uh yeah so it's just cool to hear

someone like you who's been there 27 times because i mean would you say 98 of

everything in the bicycle industry is made in asia oh in asia absolutely between 1899 china yeah probably 99

china vietnam taiwan myanmar cambodia like everything's made over there um and i mean don't get me wrong there's plenty

of bad things there too i mean just like here in the united states there's places to work that don't treat workers very well and don't pay very well and don't

let people go on bathroom breaks that definitely exists in china i mean

there are bad places there there's bad places all over the world um but for more skilled labor for high-end products

and the factories that we choose i mean we chose our factories with a lot of that in mind and i would i'm very proud of who we work with over

there yeah well that's cool i got to get over there one of these days you guys want to go to ages i'd love to let's go let me know

yeah it's super fun i would honestly love to let's have a party i've i've heard they know how to party yeah so i'm

going to bring that up i've heard that you have you it's it's uh it's customary to you have

to just drink and drink oh yeah and there's this i mean i'm honestly scared

you should you should be it's i mean because people have told me they've gone there and tried you know they're having fun they're being nice and and they just

cannot out drink the people there no way oh yeah could not i've heard these stories i've

heard these stories more about that in in asia than i've heard them about germany and ireland wow like more people

that i've talked to have been there and been like dude you told me a previous story that you were there at a factory and some other

people from another country were there at a factory and you guys drank them under the table and

those people were not not in a good spot yeah yeah that's

so before i went to china for the first time several people told me the same thing and they said yeah for business in china it's very

formal and there's there's all these customs and you need to be very respectful and that and and you need to drink a lot and i thought oh no this is

the bike world you know we're going to go over there and there we are we're not going to over drink yeah yeah we don't like binge drinking

right i i will say the first time i went to china i was a

senior in college and like most of us in college i i was pretty good at drinking at the time

i was i was used to it um and but i thought i'd go to china and no there'd be none of that

you know traditional chinese business culture and i could not have been more wrong i mean

part of getting to know these people and they'll say it they'll be very direct about it you know you have this big meeting all day and you tour these

factories and you see how things are made and being a bite geek it was like the coolest thing in the world the first time i went there and then

it's dinner time and they'll just say to you we're going to make you throw up or

we're going to get we're going to get you more drunk than you've ever been before and you're like yeah no that's

not going to happen like i'm i'm pretty good at this they were absolutely right

and it's why i'm scared yeah don't lie watch out practice yeah we could have a whole

podcast just about chinese drinking stories oh yeah there's this special kind of liquor called baijao it's uh

it's a rice-based liquor and that's what they like to drink over there and they know that americans just hate it and it's kind of this like source of pride

for them to make you drink this stuff and so of course like you know it's how we get to know each other you have a big dinner and drinking so i've always

brought bottles of baijo back and people drink it at the office and they'll have like half a sip and say like you know

this is the worst tasting liquid on the planet and i'm like yeah wait till you you're forced to

drink a whole bottle of that and then you go to work at 8am the next day to go so you gotta make these bikes and that sounds so brutal

it's a crazy part of the culture but it's honestly like i've always loved traveling like as as as soon as i could i you know i'd save

up all my money to like go travel to different places and see different cultures and so to as part of my job i

get to go see you know china and taiwan and vietnam and you know meet people and experience you know one how things are

manufactured but two just how different people think and that's been one of the coolest things for me i mean

it's just so different than here and yet everything here in america is made there it all comes from this place yeah

it's really fun yeah that's cool well thanks for shedding some light on that because it is one of those things that

so much of the bike industry it it's so it's all manufactured over there and and

a lot of us have never been over there and don't really know what's going on and there's stigmas and bad information

and good information and i don't know it's hard to know about it but when you talk to someone who you know has a bike

company who's transparent about it who's been there several dozen times it's it's cool to just learn more about that yeah

they're good at what they do i mean they they're proud of their work and we have really good bikes and a lot of brands have really good bikes that are all made

in different countries and i think at the end of the day that's that's pretty cool shouldn't matter what country it's made in as long as it's yeah i'm a

believer in that totally it is amazing how much abuse modern day bikes take and how lightweight they are

and they just actually hold up pretty good for the most part yeah speaking of which i do have a question

on that what do you think in terms of a percentage of we're so

let's talk high in mountain bikes so let's say carbon full full suspension carbon mountain bike frames that have a

retail value of above two grand right so like every nice one what do you think the percentage of them

is that break not not not like a crash situation but just genuinely have a manufacturing

defect so the numbers that i've heard and i've only heard them there's no one will

publish or share specifically yeah because everything's literally every company's private that would have any of this data and they're not sharing it

with each other exactly yeah the numbers i've heard and you know talking with some manufacturers in china that make

bikes for a lot of brands is that their goal is is two percent warranty rate now that might mean you know warranty can

mean a lot of different things that can mean some small issue like something out of tolerance there's some creaking or it could be you know an

exploded frame from hitting a drop um but two percent is a number that i've

heard as being an acceptable reasonable industry target which if you think about it at the end of the day it's kind of a

lot i mean that's one in 50 you know that's that's a good chance you're gonna get a bike that might have a problem so

of course our goal is to improve on that and beat that and i'm proud to say we we do i thought that was a little

seems like not that many but one in 50 maybe 1 in 50 yeah yeah

it depends some people ride their bikes really hard and so it's a matter of opinion at that point yeah i would say that's pretty average i mean you have a

pretty good like selection of riders that you know like you said some are smashing and some

are not i mean not everybody's gonna be full send if everybody was that number would be probably pretty high

yeah yeah it would be higher right i mean on the ride so thankfully not everybody is like

an insane downhill cup like world cup writer you know yeah and it's actually interesting how it's very geographical based too like

the uk and scandinavia has a much higher warranty rate for bicycles than america

that's very interesting um or asia weather it might be weather

like it's funny like when we sell bikes in england everyone puts 200 millimeter rotors on it no matter what bike it is 200 millimeter rotors maybe it's the

terrain maybe it's that it's muddy maybe you know the average you know rider weight is is higher than

you know in a different country um but it's pretty like well known amongst the asian manufacturers that oh if this

bike's going to you know whatever place the warranty rates are different in different parts i was going

to say is there like a rate that you know of like in certain geographical areas where it is higher in those areas

like what country is breaking the most bikes yeah exactly that's a fun well we

should do a science project on that and dig in that'd be fascinating yeah who charges the hardest it would be

cool if there was independent like if the bike industry was big enough that there were independent research firms that were trying to find out this data

and there was some you know independent research firm that was going to every single privately owned bicycle brand which is basically

all of them and asking them anonymously what are your warranty rates on bikes of this price point that price point this

material that'd be really cool let's put that on a 10-year plan to figure out how to do that yeah it'd be fascinating i

mean it's an independent research frame you just have to have someone that's funding it and it's then they do get their research and then they sell it to

these brands and yada yada and i don't know it kind of works even in the outdoor apparel industry like the

npd group i think that's like would be considered an independent research group that's doing a lot of that stuff

sort of exists in the bike world but very little yeah not to that extent to where there's you know data at your

fingertips they're really interesting stuff they're really how many bikes break yeah how many bikes break how many

dropper posts don't go all the way to the top

more than two percent yeah for sure broader now well it's still not two percent but it's better than it ever was

that's way better than a few years ago that the driver posts were i think the last thing that we're in the limelight of being just a

a high percentage of warranty yeah i mean when they came out it was like yeah i gotta have one

and then it was like service broken but that goes back to you know what

innovation are we going to see in in the future and in 10 years from now yeah i mean even two or three years ago dropper

posts like they weren't very good yeah very good reliability will be an innovation

reliability yeah and cost yeah reliability cost and manufacturing sustainability those are our innovations

we have to look forward to we'll focus on that jared can only afford one dropper post that's true

that's a really smart move though i think you got it figured out thank you i think so for access is pretty sweet yeah swap droppers all over it totally is

but i mean yeah like when can i get a 2018 transfer post for like 100 bucks like a couple years down the road they

got to still have the tooling for that stuff yeah true like somebody out there

they're like hey i'll buy that off you and they're making transfers right now right maybe not i don't know crazy

it's more maybe more complicated maybe we could dive in deep there maybe that's owned by fox and so they're not going to

just they're going to sell that to someone somebody's just going to make it they're using it for the sls yeah

oh yeah yes they are oh they sells yeah but those are legit just saying

yeah well speaking of warranty rates on carbon stuff uh rolls into the next question sort of

do you think it would do you think it's better on carbon bikes than aluminum bikes i have it or worse very little

experience with aluminum bikes i have a lot of experience with titanium and some other materials

um i don't know i've heard the same numbers but i i don't we don't make aluminum bikes yeah what kind of

like is a typical warranty climb on a titanium bike because i have never seen one if i'm honest

very very very very very little right they used to a lot more like some of the bikes you know

titanium bikes that were trying to be super lightweight you know road race tour de france bikes they made them too

thin and welds would crack now i mean the y-cycle titanium bikes we make they

don't break nice they're we're not trying to make the lightest bikes out there and yeah very rare nice there's

always some level of manufacturing defect you know one in a thousand some issue might come up super rare nice

i figured i feel like titanium is pretty durable this material in itself so yeah you get a titanium bike to have forever

right yeah does revel have any plans to make alloy bikes hmm

which which kind of rolls into a larger question of what do you see sort of the breadth of

bikes with the rebel brand on them looking like in five to ten years yeah i mean

are you gonna make lower end alloy bikes to hit different price points are you going to just hit all the little different niches

yeah i mean what we kind of say is is um yeah it won't be too specific but we say you know we want to make the

bikes that we want to ride and for a lot of us we like throughout a lot of different kinds of bikes so we you know we have titanium gravel bikes and

titanium hardtails for y cycles and then all you know four models of full suspension bikes now a carbon gravel

bike so the goal you know i look at a brand like you know i think santa cruz has done a

really good job like their lineup well now it's a lot bigger um with a lot more e-bikes but a few years ago their lineup was kind of everything from

gravel bikes to like world cup downhill bikes and i kind of look at that and and i sort of see revel going there you know

if we can do a bike and we think we can do it a little better or more unique than some other brands you know then and

we want it then we're gonna make it so but we're not gonna you know be like a trekker specializer giant just

make every single possible bike out there because there's market share like that's not at all what we want to do um the alloy bike thing is kind of funny we

um actually have a few alloy hardtails in our building that were some frames that i made a few years ago

i got a little bit overly zealous when i was in the process of starting rival and i already had y cycles and we were total

startup company with all of us like living in the same house together and i started working on making this aluminum

line of bikes too and found one of the best factories in the world in taiwan to make these aluminum bikes

got a bunch of prototypes and then i was like well we're we got way too much going on so let's let's pump the brakes

on that project but i started working on some and now they're gonna get turned into like you know bar bar bikes for the for the shop

um but maybe maybe we will make some aluminum bikes at some point i think there's a lot to be said for better price point um high performing bikes

yeah sure definitely that's cool and for those who don't know what is a bar bike adam

well sometimes you get to work smart over here because you both have one i know you both have them yes you know

when when you want to go get a drink at the bar after work you don't always want to oh that's right you're that bar i was

thinking like the bar exam like what lawyers take it's slightly different like it's more about um

actually harder to get a bar bike than it is so at least have a cool one

please have a cool one having a cool bar bike is like a sign of pride like you need it needs to be old and kind of not

very nice but it's not too worried about it being stolen really nice like anodized bolts on it mm-hmm i have some

first gen white industries hubs on my bar bike that's perfect with a rasta salsa skewer oh now i'm really jealous

yeah those were cool there's ross that's also that's why it's sweet perfect application bar bike actually

rebel bikes is only going to make bar bikes in the future that's the future of the company

that's my next bike that would actually be a plausible business plan of having a company that's

just called bar bikes and that's all you made was kind of cool looking aluminum bikes that wow 250 dollars

just right to the bar cut this whole part out of the podcast let's let's sign some papers

that would actually work really well it would probably work really well if someone does that please uh that's your

oldest second role please give us some royalties please thank you you're making money on this podcast yeah i know mr

wonderful we should do more of these all right adam

why have you chosen the geometry you have for rebel bikes why not be more extreme this was from a

listener question i love this question we we try to

from the beginning i wanted rebel bikes to you know make the bikes we want and only make something if we think we can

you know do it a little bit better than some other companies and and not just copy what everyone else is doing out there and that's where you know cbf came

into play and some neat stuff with carbon fiber and you know fusion fiber on the wheels uh the geometry is like a

huge i mean that's kind of the main part of any mountain bike uh i think there's so much out there in the

bicycle media and on you know commenters on pink bike and things like that where you know

it would seem that everyone needs like a 63 degree head angle you know super long

slack you know short chains they bike and the reality is for most of us that's not what is ideal most of us don't race

world cup downhill and we ride our bike uphill or we ride it on flat trails and we ride up downhill and so

we chose the geometry for all of our bikes very specifically and some people have said oh it's not

you know it's not you know modern in quotes or as modern as some other bikes and

you know in my perfect world there would be no geometry charts on any bicycle manufacturer website and there would be

really high quality reviews and content from you know places like worldwide and pink bike and all these bike magazines

and consumers could test ride every single bike and never look at the numbers just go test ride it and see what you like and i think it's easy for

people to say oh i need a 64 degree head angle well what does that actually mean you have to think about wheel size tire

size tire pressure your offset um your fork length i mean there's so many factors that go into how the front end

of that bike handles and head angle is is just one of so many factors um

same with reach well reach is directly related to seat angle you know where's your body position on

the bike i think geometry one of it is about how the bike handles

it handles terrain two is your your body positioning and you need to balance both of those things and balance it for the

type of train you're in if you're going uphill all the time if you're on you know if you're not in colorado or utah where

we ride a lot where it's steep up and steep down but you're in you know flatter terrain like where i grew up in alaska it was more you know tight trees

um i think just kind of thinking of the big picture and where most people ride the bikes where we want to ride the bikes we chose geometry numbers that

that we thought were good and i think you know a lot of consumers agree with us we've got a lot

of pretty good reviews so yeah yeah we definitely agree i mean i i certainly have said that many times when

people have asked me about revels and oh how do they ride and what about this and what about that and you know i think the

vast majority of people that i see riding bikes and are curious about getting a new bike

do get end up they end up in this decision paralysis where they probably read more than they should have read

and they got a little confused and you know they're they're they're reading sort of the thoughts and comments of

i don't know former downhill racers or 18 year old kids that are literally slope style pros and it's like well

they're not really riding the same way you're riding that bike and they have preferences that are very different than yours and a lot of this is personal

preference and a lot of it really boils back down to just please just stop looking at all these numbers and go test things go test things go ride bikes and

see what works for you and don't get confused because yeah i mean everyone rides at a different pace and then therefore they have different

preferences and different terrain and it does get kind of complex so i can certainly see why people end up with

decision paralysis but i don't know that's why it's nice to demo bikes in a perfect world if you're looking to buy a

new bike if people can go to you know sedona bike fest or moab or bike you know there's all these events coming

back now there a lot of them weren't around during coveted years but now they're all back and you can go and i usually say you know find a 20-minute

test loop go ride by yourself and ride you know eight different bikes and just see what they feel like and forget about

looking at numbers and geometry charts and go ride them and and we've had so much good luck at events we were just at

the sedona bike fest a couple weeks ago and we you know it's like the biggest ego boost of all time like we're sitting there showing off our

new rail29 and we have like hundreds of people demoing these bikes and everybody comes back and they're like this is the

best bike i've ever ridden you know it's like it's just like the most stoke you could possibly imagine um but those are really

good events for yeah how bikes actually ride instead of just looking at numbers yeah totally i think also like a lot of

people get caught up in um just like listening to what other people say about

the bike right like oh he said this bike is too long too slack and and it's like well no don't listen to that person like

go ride it like what you said like go and experience it and then form your own opinion because unless you like 100

trust what that person's saying and like you have similar very similar opinions on bikes but like so many so much of the

time people just read comments or they see something and then they're like they just absorb that and then that's their opinion you know could not agree more

yeah yeah demo bikes go try all right ride more bikes yeah yeah and part of it is is just time

right it just takes you a while to figure this stuff out i told you earlier today that story of my friend matt who

when he got into mountain bikes he's all stoked and he's got it he got like two different bikes and he kind of just

bought i don't know where it where his buying decisions were based in at that point just he's just pumped on getting high in mountain bike and riding and

then from there he's getting more and more into the industry asking more questions reading more articles just really diving in just falling in love

with the sport and then he's asking me oh what bike do i get next and and he's like i really want to get this mondraker

because it's so long and so slack and i was trying to explain and i was like dude those are great bikes however i've ridden with you you're my friend um your

speed and where you're riding that's not going to be the right bike for you uh and i try to talk them

just in just different geometry because i knew his skill level and sort of what he was looking for and what he even

liked in a bike and where his strengths and weaknesses were as a rider and you're like i'm pretty good at this i have a pretty good amount of experience

with this and uh and so so of course he did not listen to my my recommendation and he got the

mandraker and uh in three months he's like it's just too big dude like i can't manage this thing it feels so large i

like can't i can't get the i can't do a cuddy i couldn't really do one before but i definitely can't do one now

and i'm like i know man i told you all he's just like oh yeah you're right you're right oh you know and then it was so funny but of course then you know i i

talked to him like dude try rebel like just ride one ride a few different bikes in our stores because he's he lives closer to our pennsylvania store where

we have i think four different brands and he wrote every seat demoed every single one and then he settled on the

rebel and he's like been hooked on rebels ever since so i love hearing that yeah that's freaking awesome yeah it was

pretty cool so it's um yeah it's you know it's it's definitely one of those things that and it takes time sometimes

you gotta you gotta learn by yourself and and do what he did and spend a lot of different money on bikes and buying something we can all be a little

stubborn at times yeah yeah that's exactly right it's a pretty common conversation in our office amongst our

product development team of you know oh should we do a 78 degree seat angle or you know whatever the

the you know popular numbers are of the day and we just keep coming back to let's make what we want and we're going to be confident

in what we want and whether it's what pink bite commenters want or not like we we ride bikes all the time like our

business is based in carbondale and i moved it there purely because it's like mountain bike mecca like yeah it's awesome so we're just gonna make what we

want and yep i think a lot of other people probably want that too yeah that's cool and on on the topic of some

sort of that just geometry and bike performance and suspension designs and all of that um one of my close friends

nico malali who i used to grew up racing with he is now doing this whole frameworks project where he's having his

he designed his own frames he's erasing him we've talked about him we had him on was the last podcast he was on right and

uh yeah so listen to that podcast and also his youtube channel so he's really trying to document his process of

designing his own bike and testing different geo and what he's doing and it's it's fascinating to watch and

understand and i think he's doing a pretty good job at i think he gets lost certain times but he's doing a good job

at explaining it to the common man who just really loves this stuff but at the same time

uh kind of making it clear in some ways or another which should be assumed he's a world cup downhill racer

like literally in the top 100 of the fastest human beings that could ever ride a bike down a hill in the world

at this current moment and and that is extremely different than the pace that 99 of other people ride and and

therefore you need very different suspension geo tire pressure suspension setup all these different things are so

different when you ride a bike at that pace with that skill level versus what just normal

mass everyday mountain bikers are trying to do and enjoy on their bike i think what he's doing is so cool for exactly that

reason yeah the world cup downhill racer is not the same as the rest of us as much as i want to think i even do that

i'm not even close yeah and the bikes that we need are generally different than what they need so what he's doing makes so much sense yeah and that's

something to you you just learn as you're in the industry more and you ride with guys like that or if you know you

can't really ride with them for very long but you can watch them you know from from the sidewalk watch

them right away from you and then you start realizing that you know how that bike reacts when you hit certain things

on certain tracks at certain speeds and yeah it's cool but it's a really interesting thing i think what he's

doing because it's really educational to people who you know really interested in bike geometry and suspension platforms

and all of that but um yeah just just to learn more about it from someone who explains it really well nico's just

really well spoken and he's really honest and transparent about the whole project so yeah i think it's similar to

like when we were talking earlier about asian manufacturing like until you've you know gone there and seen it like

it's good to hold off judgment like until you've ridden a bike with a 63 degree head angle and one with a 66

degree head angle like it's better to hold off judgment until you go ride that yourself because everyone has their own individual experiences yeah and the more

you can you know get out to a demo event i'll like keep like hammering that in as much as possible like like trying

different things and and that's the only way you can figure it all out and as you're saying it's a whole package right

like every single bit of geometry lends itself to how it rides

along with the suspension platform so like you don't just want to make a bike oh this bike will be awesome if it

just has a 62 degree head tubing like uh probably won't because yeah there's a lot of engineers designing that whole

bike for that whole package and just because it you know might have a steeper head tube angle than what you

know another bike next to it has doesn't mean it's going to ride any worse totally i think a common one that i see

a lot is like on whether it's our bikes or any brand of bikes is like oh i hit my pedals a lot on that bike you know it's the

bottom bracket's too low and it's like well there's like several factors beyond the bottom bracket that have much more

of an impact like your shock pressure a few psi difference in your shock pressure you know and therefore how much

sag you're at has way more of an impact than you know if you look at bb drops on a lot of full suspension bikes most

brands are within a few millimeters they're pretty similar yeah yeah they're close so just yeah little things like that it's like well might not be the

bike it might be the setup or it might be the shock and i think setup is often overlooked um

you know spending time dialing in your setup and learning how to set up suspension is going to make just about any brand a bike out there ride

way better yep definitely we have a whole youtube video on that whoa you did it

it's pretty extensive too everybody should watch it yeah it's helpful for sure

well all right adam we've got a couple questions left jared hit him with him adam

how oh excuse me wrong question do you think bike prices are getting too

high oh i mean i think that's something that we can all agree on that yes absolutely

bike prices are getting too high and the last two years have been really really bad for trying to get bike prices lower

we actually we've done two price increases for revel during the pandemic and both of them were like some of the

most stressful things we've done in the office because obviously we're running a business we want to run a really successful business but at the end of

the day like everybody in our building is a die-hard like bike fan we all want to buy our own bikes and so the price

increases we did were were not very fun but we were getting hit with all these increases from every manufacturer we're still getting them i mean

once every week or two weeks we'll get a letter from one of our vendors saying surprise all your prices are going up by three

percent or five percent or 13 you know tomorrow and we're like wait a second like we've had all this stuff on

order like you're just gonna raise these prices tomorrow like it's horrible so um you know our hands are pretty tight in

that and i think we're a bit more conservative on the increases but yeah i hope when all the supply chain stuff

settles down and hopefully the world gets back to normal at some point um and in the in the long run i think you know

different manufacturing techniques can help uh improve efficiencies i i truly hope we could lower prices at some point

and i hope all bike companies can we should make it a lot more attainable for more people yeah well totally so two things for clarity there when you say

vendors you're talking about all the different components that make up a complete revel bike totally tires wheels

handlebars all the components you know that manufacture products in asia that you know they're all hitting getting hit

with their own raw material price increases carbon fiber aluminum you know

rubber to make tires all those prices were have been going up for the last few years yeah yeah the other thing there

for clarity is so us as a retailer we deal with over 150 brands and i think

every single one of them whether it's complete bikes or components they've all raised their prices and none of them are

happy about it obviously nobody really want wanted to do that but yeah i mean covet affected the bike industry so much

and so all these supply chain things and now we have inflation to deal with and yeah i mean it's just an unfortunate

thing but it's not not not just you guys it's just for clarity literally every single bike brand we

know of has done that and component brand it's just an unfortunate nature of you know what's

happened and i think a common misconception is like oh there's way more demand so companies can charge more

for their products and that's at least i don't think that's why that has nothing to do with it it's like well prices went up and and so

unfortunately that has to happen and a lot of us you know kind of absorbed it and dealt with it for you know a long

time and it kind of you know that's that's what happens in business but that's like the not so fun part of business sometimes so i think it'll get

better eventually yeah maybe we'll see from 2024 to 2028 will be the bikes will

be slightly years bikes will come down in price yes yep see you then just wait it out a couple years

wait it out a couple years yeah then again maybe it won't yeah yeah inflation will probably catch up by

then oh okay fingers crossed optimism come on optimism optimism that's right we're

gonna get such nice bikes in 2027. so less money than now just just wait

till then just don't buy a new bike till then that's perfect yeah just take up some other sports that also

had a bunch of price increases turns out actually everything you did and everything fun that has to do with going outside got more expensive yeah yeah

that's true i don't honestly can't think of the top of my head anything that went down in price nothing no yeah maybe maybe masks that's

the first thing that i thought of but then again i have no idea what this cost before this exactly they probably went up

they were a little cheaper than bikes anyway yeah yeah i don't know i can't think of anything

yeah unfortunately business gets in the way of bikes sometimes but that's okay the last the last uh the

last listener question so a bunch of these come from we post on the worldwide cycle or instagram and ask for mtv

podcast questions and uh and this this one that i the story i posted was very specific that hey we're recording the podcast adam

miller the founder of rebel bikes is coming what questions you have for him and this was the this was a question go

ahead liam i have a top uh sorry it's kind of funny

i have a trek top fuel with a dual lockout can i install that on my scott spark

adam that's what somebody wanted to ask you of all the things that someone could ask you specifically

this was the question this is my area of expertise it's a good thing i flew all the way from carbondale colorado to

california so i can answer this question you know you you do you just what whatever makes

you happy obviously you should do it more more cables more lockouts that seems like a

fun thing to try so a lot of problems compatibility you do you boo boo yeah yeah i'm glad i could help you out there

with that one i'm sorry we didn't have more you know compatibility questions for you um that took 20 years in the bike industry

for myself to come up with that answer so thanks to all my expertise help someone else compatibility we

should have you on next time and just talk about compatibility stuff i would love nothing more it would be great yeah

props props for the new bike coming with the sram udh by the way yes thank you high fives all around that's the that's

the universal derailleur hanger that should be on every new bike ever created from here on out in my opinion yeah we

don't use it what are you doing as a bike brand yeah good question udh is really cool shrimp did a great job does that work on

road bikes too our gravel bike has it actually the new rebel rover gravel bike boom so yes universal stone

on a road bike show yeah you did it well now we can do a whole podcast on that discussion right there

like hardcore

so it might not end up on too much weight have you felt one they're plastic they're like 12 grams

narrow small so it might not make it what's keith what's your prediction on will it end up

being on hardcore roadie bikes in the future anything that anybody's going to race now oh okay he said anything that

anyone's going to race and know riding bikes yeah so almost all bikes

but extremely high-end ultra lightweight road racing bikes maybe not you know in the tour de france no way

maybe we'll make a fusion fiber super lightweight version so he says that the udh will not make it on

tour de france race bikes ever hmm sram will prove it

i'm going to see how this comment age is 2027 to follow up with keith on that

comment right let's ram road uth either way i mean who cares

this is not the road podcast it's the mountain bike podcast so that's right yeah regardless the sram universal

derailleur hanger is a fantastic invention so i'm really happy to see that on your guys new bike and i'm sure i'll see it on it's on a lot more new

bikes yeah we'll probably continue to do it so well that's cool that's it that's all thank you for listening this long in

the podcast if you're still listening jared we love you yes

that's that's what we tell people and and uh any last words adam i mean i had a great time riding bikes with you guys

today it was really fun to cool pedal bikes and dry dirt and 80 degree weather yeah i'll be back socal man sweet thank

you all for listening we genuinely appreciate it see you guys or listen to you guys talk to you guys in the next

one yeah used to youtube videos cheers love you cheers bye bye bye

[Music]

you

March 21, 2022

MTB Podcast › Revel › Video ›

All Things Revel Bikes As We Interview Founder Adam Miller + Bike Industry Insights... Episode 92 [Podcast]

If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!

March 21, 2022

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