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Yeti’s New E-Bike, DT Swiss Deep Dive, Crank Length, Kids Bikes & More... Ep. 161 [Podcast]
Today on the podcast, the guys recap an epic recent trip to Whistler as well as Jared's Amflow torture test before chatting about the new Yeti LTe and welcoming our friends from DT Swiss to chat about their new FR571 rims + DEG DF upgrade kit. We then jump into a classic set of listener questions ranging from proper crank length to trading lives with someone else and everything in between. Tune in!
Worldwide Cyclery YouTube Channel
Submit any and all questions to podcast@worldwidecyclery.com.
Join us on epic mountain bike trips that you will never forget in locations like Tasmania, Italy & Nepal. Grab $250 off any All Mountain Rides trip by just mentioning WWC: https://worldwidecyclery.com/blogs/worldwide-cyclery-blog/all-mountain-rides-all-inclusive-mountain-bike-guided-trips-w-worldwide-cyclery-crew
If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 161 of the MTB podcast presented and
hosted by Worldwide Cycling, Ketl Mountain Apparel, and Trail One Components. I am Jared.
I'm Liam. And I am Trevor. That is right, ladies and gentlemen. The three Migos back in the house tonight.
And in this episode, we have our friends from DTSwiss joining us, Nick and Niels, to go over two new products that
recently launched, the FR571 rim and the DEEGDF ratchet system. Plus, we have
some epic listener questions ranging from crank length to who we would swap
lives with with anybody in the world for a day and everything in between. Wow, that's deep.
That is pretty deep. Super deep. Speaking of deep, Zach's words of wisdom. Surround yourself with those who
lift you higher and you'll never not have an amazing day. Zach said that himself, which is why it
says never not. Double negative. And you'll never not, which you could say you'll always have
an amazing day. Yeah. And you know what? That's true. If you
surround yourself with people who are positive and who have are a positive influence on you, then things are just
going to go up from there. And you'll never not you'll never you'll never not have an amazing day. Yeah. Zach just got married and I think
he did exactly that. Married someone who uh lifts him up higher every day. So it's pretty good.
She does not she can't lift him. No. Well, she might be able to metaphorically.
She's pretty strong, but poundfor Zach's a big boy. That's true.
Speaking of big boys, sloths can hold their breath longer than dolphins. By
slowing their heart rate, sloths can last up to 40 minutes underwater. Dolphins usually manage about 10.
Wow. I would not have guessed that. Why do sloths need to do that?
That's a really good question. I've never I've never thought about a sloth in water. Why do they need to do that? Cuz they're
so slow and they fall off a tree in the water and they got to like get themselves out of there. That's a really good question, Lamb.
Yeah. Um, you know, ask our chat GBT buddy because you know, typically
I've never seen a sloth near water. No, I've never seen a sloth if I'm being honest. I don't think I've ever seen a sloth
either like in person. Uh, I heard they smell.
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. I don't know. They've got mean claws. They do.
Mhm. But do they swipe fenc? They probably can. They do have huge huge claws. Do we not
have a testimonial this week? Fantastic testimonial. That's so funny you say that, Liam, because I'm looking at one right now.
Oh, yeah. So, fantastic testimonial. I truly didn't want to leave a review, but the
guilt of leaving a fine crew member of Worldwide Cyclingery face up in a rock garden without an answer to his question
regarding my purchase simply became too much. The product is lovely and the shipping and communication was excellent
as well. Get well soon and keep shredding. Wait, I'm confused. So, he he met a worldwide staff in a rock.
No, it's our it's our uh follow-up email. Okay. It says, um, "Hey, why is going OTB in a
rock garden and I thought of you in your order or something like that." Okay, got like, "Wow, I can see that
happening, though." Like, someone in Northstar from the Reno shop or something, right? Who knows?
Yeah. No, the one of our follow-up emails, our our email chains are funny. If you ever place an order and you see them Yeah.
they're very creative. Kind of quirky, guys. Yeah. Quirky for sure. I've had people
talk to me about that actually and say they love that cuz it's it's like not so much of a spam email. It's like oh it's
like I actually want to read this and it's interesting. Not your typical email. Emails are pretty boring normally. So
yeah, anything that could bring a smile to your face and give you a little chuckle or maybe even mislead you into
thinking somebody crashed their bike, you know? Better than the mundane Yeah. boring emails and then you get
sucked into the like constant email chain of once a week sale emails when you order from some random company,
right? I got like hundreds and hundreds of emails in that like promotions folder. Yeah.
And it's just like all of them is just like gh you just got to unsubscribe, bro. I know. And now you get ones you don't
even realize like how do I even get people from this company on Gmail? I've noticed you can unsubscribe super easy now. They like
give you the option cuz before you'd have to go into the actual site and if I do that report spam. Yeah. Yeah.
Boom. Not easy. Spam. You know, I got some serious work to do on that on that front. It's worth it. It's worth it for your
mental sanity. It is. Keep that inbox clean. Data management is just like so
frustrating these days. Like I'm I'm looking at like, you know, like my computer, Jeff gave me the little Mac Mini and then like every time I finish
something, like so good about deleting the photos and the videos just so I can have enough room to like start the next
project. Yeah. I recently had to switch towers as well, and it's kind of nice. kind of gave me a fresh
start. And now I have everything on a remote hard drive and not on the actual
desktop. So like I can also unplug it and work wherever I want with 100% of my photos and data on there.
That's really smart, Liam. I think I should get a hard drive too. It uh well it took basically my computer
going down for a week roughly. I don't know. It was a while. I got screwed um when I was dealing with all stuff. I
think you were gone. I don't know. I remember you having a hard time. Yeah. It was a while. Yeah. And I remember I like left on a Friday.
I'm like, "Yep, that's next week's problem." Came back and I was like,
now it is a problem. There's a fire. Yeah. Oh god. Um, but yeah, you know, it's fresh
start. I know what I'm doing now. I did not know what I was doing when I had that tower about 6 years ago. So,
there's files everywhere, you know. Yeah. I mean, this is a bike podcast. Let's get back to bikes. Yeah. What types of bikes and rides have we
been enjoying lately? Well, you guys just got back from Whistler. We did. We did. We just hit back from
Whistler. Ah, you dogs. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your trip. Liam and I went on a little like fun
vacation to Whistler Bike Park. Um, just to just to ride some bikes and get some
get some laps in. Just three days of bike park smashing. Flew up, travel day. Three days, flew home, travel day. Like
it was strictly business. Strictly business. Strictly riding bikes. We ate at three restaurants in 5 days or
something like that. Yeah. Didn't go out. Slept a bunch. Just recovered cuz the bike park was
pretty hammered and Yeah. I uh broken bumps. Got I brought out a uh
Rebel Ritual which was pretty sweet. I got to break it in there which was crazy. Um so it was nice to have a a fresh bike
there. So the Rebel Ritual for those that don't know is a Enduro bike from from uh Rebel, their kind of new enduro
bike. replaces the rail 29 and it's a 165 rear travel, 170 front travel bike.
And yeah, it was it was I would say just enough for Whistler. Whistler is pretty extreme as far as bike parks go. Like
most people are really just riding downhill bikes there. Yeah. So it was it was great to ride be able to ride an enduro bike and have it hang.
Um just put some downhill tires on it and um we put the trail wheel trail one wheels on it and call it a day.
Nice. Yeah, it was it was sweet. The lap laps were heavy. Again, the bike park was super rough. So, took a took a couple
laps to like get used to the bike and then I was actually it didn't take a couple laps. I was actually pretty used to it like right away. I really jelled
with it quickly. Nice. But, it took a couple laps to get used to the speed that Whistler gives you
and the size of the jumps. The the jumps are like the size of a house for sure. And you're going like 30 miles an hour
into these jumps, which is just bananas. Like something you would never do anywhere else, right? Um, so that was a bit of a a shock to
the system. I've I've been to Whistler a couple times, so I knew what I was getting into, but um yeah, definitely took a took a second to
crank it up and then straight to A-line. Crank it up and then Yeah. We had Crank Crank It Up and Seymour butts were beat
up. Really? Yeah. Wow. So, proper. We did a warm-up lap on that. And I was like, "All right, let's go see if Aine's
in better shape cuz Yeah, that's not smooth on our wrists at all." And there were some big holes, but you could kind of get around some of them
and then some of them you try to take it. Um Yeah. You got to do what you got to do. Yeah.
Yeah. It was good though. Straight biz. Nice. So, you took the ritual. Yep. Liam, you took your frameworks.
Yep. Yep. Frameworks enduro. You're on 2929. Yep. Uh I was on a mullet setup, but pretty
much same travel ranges. Um yeah, it was sick. You guys both had Maxis downhill tires.
Got DHR2. DHR2 downhill tires. I actually had a double down the front just cuz that's what I had on. I didn't
feel like buying a tire, swapping it, but yeah, downhill rear. Yeah, downhill rear is essential there.
Essential. Essential. It's amazing how much downhill tires help with. It gives you so much confidence like
Yeah, that and yeah, we honestly had did have pretty similar setups as far as like components goes. We both had Rock
Shock suspension. Yeah. Zebs, Vivid Airs. Uh you had you had Maven bases, I had
Maven Silvers, we both had transmission drivetrains. Um yeah, pretty I mean pretty solid
reliable stuff. Like no issues there. And it works so well. It's pretty incredible.
It's amazing. We pretty much did three days first chair to last chair roughly. Like I think second day we tapped out a little
early just to like Second day the bodies were beat. Yeah. And then third day the bodies came around, the hands came around a little
bit, at least for me. And it made it so much more enjoyable cuz you're just you're just making blisters
on your hands and your wrists are bruised. You're the watch kind of bruises your wrist a little bit too. And yeah, like halfway
through day two, I went to the bike shop and got some tape to tape my hand my
inside my webbing cuz I was blistering. Oh, that's not a bad idea. Um, and then I bought tape that night and I taped them up both hands real good
for day three. KT tape type stuff or just medical tape? Yeah, athletic tape. Yeah. Um, but that was the only thing. I mean,
bodies were just beat up, but Yeah. Yeah. I also think day one was a probably a bit of just riding hard
blacks and double black tech trails and just like going pretty fast. Um riding
like at pace and just like overgripping death gripping. We got like we got like three or four
like warm-up laps in and then we met up with Cody Kelly and Mitch Roelato just rand randomly they were there and so we
kind of hung on their wheels the rest of the day and they were both on downhill bikes and so and they're also just like top
pros. Yeah. So, it was like we thought we were going kind of quick and then you try to follow them and it's just the pace is
absolutely absurd. Yeah. And just kind of holding on for dear life and hitting holes harder than you normally would and
holding on nor harder than you normally would. It uh it's pretty pretty brutal on your body
and so it takes a little bit to adapt to that. They probably already had a bunch of bunch of days in the park. Yeah. When I talked to Cody earlier,
he was there. We just I just missed him in June and he's like, "Oh, I'll be there in September." And then so I think
he said this was his fifth week in Whistler Bike Park of the summer. Fifth week. Fifth week. Wow.
Yeah. So like you're pretty adapted to it at that point. But you know those little sneaky lines and the cool trails.
That's crazy. But yeah, like you know straight into a day one and we're hanging on their wheels on some tech trails and it's just
like and even on the flow trails like they're flow trails. or jump trails, you know, but yeah, you're going so fast and
yeah, you're doing I think we're looking like our average speed is about 20 mph on A-line with hitting like 30 high 30s
on A-ine every single lap. That's crazy. Yeah, I think bottom of dirt merchant you hit like 38 or something like that.
Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous, but it was cool. I mean, that place is awesome. Super fun. There's so many trails. Every
time every time you go, there's a different trail that you find that's just like blows your mind. The jumps are insane. and you just once
you figure out to like commit to the speed and commit to the lip and not kind of break check everything
then they work and it's just the most incredible feeling. Um and yeah, we both came back in one piece. So um that's that's the
most important thing is going up the only thing I wanted to check off was D1.
Yeah, you know, hopefully we get through D1 and maybe like day two or three we knew uh we'd meet up with Cody and like
maybe he'll tow us through it. We hit it halfway into deep day day one.
So fun. Yeah, it was good. That trail looks so sick. It's a technical jump trail for sure. It's a pro line, but the jumps aren't
like any bigger than a line. If anything, they're some some of them are smaller than what's on a line. They're I'd say they're like they have
knuckles. You don't want to case. You can though. Um you don't want to nose case. Like every jump every jump is like a
turn step down or a turn step up. So you kind of are like are you can't just jump it straight. You have to like lean into
it and yank and you have to not break in the corner. So it's just a little bit more technical. Um but it's cool to make it
through. Um I I think I still think like some other jump lines are harder. Yeah.
Or and crab apple. We didn't hit crab apple and brutal. I think I need a downhill bike for that and or just
just to man up a little bit. But those jumps are big. They are big. They're huge to me. I've I've hit it twice before,
three times, but two summers ago, and they reshaped. Yeah. And they've reshaped them since, and they're much bigger now, or lippier they look like.
Um, but it's it is cool to check off cuz they're massive, right? It's like probably the biggest jump I'll ever hit
on a bike. Yeah. But, uh, they're just kind of straight where like to me D1's like more fun cuz
it's flowier and like more technical as far as like any one of us can make it through crab
apple if someone's towing us through it. where D1 is like, you know, you got to have a bit more skill to get through it,
I think, versus just balls. Yeah, I think so. Definitely. But it looked super fun on that video that
you posted. I was like, that looks like a really fun jump. And that was like what, your second run
on D1? Yeah, the post second. First run, I cased a couple of the step downs cuz I didn't realize how big they actually
were. Yeah, actually I just was going too too slow out of the corners to to like properly make them. I
mean, you have to just pretty much no break it, which is a little bit sketchy with the brake bumps and the ruts and stuff
for sure. Um, so yeah, just second run and um, yeah, it was good.
So, is it similar in the way that I mean, I'm sure it is and all these other W Park trails are where like if you make
the first one like you maintain a speed like you're good or if you case the first one and you miss it like you're the whole rest of the trail like you're
Yeah, for the most part it's it's more just like maintaining the speed through the turn and not breaking. Yeah. and just committing for sure. The
first they were commit. Yeah. The first run I was following Cody, you followed Mitch. We like split
cuz it was dusty. And I cased literally like I think the
first shark fin. Um I just tagged it and then I pulled out of the step up and then he waited for me and then we pedled
in and made the rest of everything. Um but yeah, like I would have made that
step up having cased the first one. Yeah. Yeah. or I would have cased that as well and then not probably made anything
else. So sick. Super cool to see all the uh all the Groms they're shredding, too.
These kids are like 10, 11, 12 just throwing the biggest whips you've ever seen and it's insane. And going through these these I don't
know. It's nuts to me. But the next generation is is here. They grew up on that. They're growing up
on it. They're growing up on it on some insane bikes, too. Like full suspension little I don't know 26 24 in bikes. And it's
pretty cool. Super cool. It is cool. What a time to be alive. Yeah, that's amazing.
Mhm. Well, I personally did not just get back from Whistler. That's pretty cool. You guys went. I'm stoked for you guys. Um,
while you were gone, I did an AMF flow torture test. Yeah, it was actually more fun than I
thought it would be. So, like trying to see how how long you could go on a charge. Exactly. Yeah. We both saw you ride and I was
like, "Oh, that's a sick ride." And I was like, "Wait, that's an ebike ride." Yeah. cuz it's like something I do on a
XC bike for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I got So, what are your stats? So, I got 48 and a2 miles and 6,300 ft
of elevation. Wow. Pretty solid for an ebike. Yeah. And I could have got more. I probably
could have got like 50 plus miles and like 7,000 ft of elevation if I did not kick it into trail mode at the very end
like just to get back to the shop. Yeah. I would say that's huge for anybody. You were in eco most the rest of the day. Eco mode the whole day.
Okay. And then you put it in a trail just cuz you like I'm over this. Yeah. I was like, I got a steep climb to get out of here. And I'm like, yeah, I'm
over this. Gotcha. Yeah. I don't know if I could do that. That would just be so brutal. It was a serious exercise in
self-control. Not putting it into trail mode or turbo mode like all day. Yeah. Because Yeah. We I looked at your
average speed and it wasn't really any higher than a fast XC ride. No. So like eco. Do you feel like you were
trying less than if you were on an ASR with pretty fast tires? Definitely. You're trying less though.
Definitely trying less. Like I could definitely like Yeah. kind of just like uh like if you spin your legs you're moving. Okay.
But but more boring though. Um or was it I don't know cuz I still hit a lot of fun downhills and like that was the goal
of the route was to hit like a bunch of the best downhills. Like Yeah. You pretty much did the best at KJO loop.
Exactly. So that was sick and all the trails were super fun. Like except for somebody went sabotaged suicide really
again. Yeah. Again. Yeah. like they just looked like somebody with their poles. They were just like breaking up all the jumps and
we just rode it the weekend before and it was fine. Oh, did you really? It looked like honestly was fresh and I saw like a few hikers out there with poles and I was
like it was totally one of you guys. Like totally one of you guys. Like it was pretty it was like pretty
obvious it was sabotaged. I Oh, for sure. Yeah. And like so you know like at the after the toilet bowl
there's kind of like that double drop like there it kind of trail splits and off to the right there's like a drop drop or drop jump. And uh so they
knocked a couple of the rocks out of the drop and they put them in the middle of the trail after the blind drop.
Oh yeah. Sounds like sabotage. I hit that section. It was fine. Yeah. So I came off of the I came off
the drop and I was just like, "Oh my god." Thankfully I missed him, but like
it's so frustrating. And like at the the burm and then like they put a bunch of stuff in the trail right after the burm
like right where you'd exit it and destroyed the little step up hip and everything. Super frustrating.
But aside from that, yeah, the the ride was super sick and uh I mean it was
Yeah, it was super cool. It brought along then I I had got to have a nice little Latal Deli sub about halfway
through which was cool. Um and yeah, we'll this was all for a video for testing the Amplo. So video will be out
closer to the end of this month, so in a couple weeks. Um but yeah, it's pretty cool. It's interesting. I've never like gone out on
eco mode just to see how long it would last like on any ebike. And ever since we got the envelope, I'm like, "This is
something I want to do, but like I literally just need a whole day to do it." Yeah. It takes forever. It took forever. Yeah. Like moving time.
Hour ride. Yeah. It was four four and a half hour moving time or something like that. Like six plus hours of total time cuz like I
stopped for a little bit. Yeah. In my experience like with like riding ebike on eco, it kind of makes your legs kind of lethargic. You're not
really like activating your legs or pushing your muscles very hard cuz you're kind of just spinning the whole time. Yeah. Um the downhills do help like
revitalize your body a little bit I would say it does get you I would get over it pretty quick I think. Oh yeah
just going on eco and the fact that you can just press a button like two or three times and just be absolutely
ripping up the hill would be pretty bothersome. So that is definitely a mental exercise and self-control. It for sure was. Um, and and like to
make it last even longer, like I get to the road section and I would like tune it down like I would take, you know, 10
Newton meters, like 100 watts off the total power. Oh wow. So you went hard. Yeah. So like on the road I was
definitely like spinning, but even though like once I got up 20 m hour, like it's pretty easy to keep it there on a flat section road.
Um, but it's pretty funny just like running I ran into some guy on a road bike and we both had stopped at the light and
he's like, "Oh, nice bike." And I was just like, "Thanks." You know, whatever. It's not mine. But uh and so he just
lays on like the sixlla or something and then he just like takes off and he's definitely like had it in his head. He's like I'm not letting this guy pass me.
He's just like throwing down watts. I'm like 20 m an hour. You're cruising on the ebike. I was cruising on the ebike going 20 m hour and this guy is like pulling away.
I'm like and he's like he did not want me to catch up or keep up with him at all.
I've told you about the the older guy on a e road bike that towed me all the way through Hidden Valley.
Oh yeah. Uh, like he like caught me, passed me, and then I passed him back on a little downhill and then he passed me
back once it got flat again. And then I just sat on his wheel and we were doing like 26
all the way through Hidden Valley. And this guy is probably easily in his 70s. Yeah, cuz his bike can go 28. His bike can go 28. And I was like just
sitting on his wheel doing like 26 or so. Great pacer. It was sick. Yeah. And I and then I
sprinted up a hill and uh treasure hill and like I think I set like a PR up it
and I've done it like 75 times cuz I was just sitting on his wheel and homeboy like has an extra 300 watts. So he's
doing you know 450 watts up the hill while draft Yeah. full sprint. But I was like dang this is pretty
incredible. So that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Checking my computer.
Speaking of ebikes. Speaking of ebikes. Wow. What a great segue, Trevor. You learned from the
best. Speaking of ebikes, the Yeti LTE is new new uh new big dog ebike from Yeti
coming out. Big dog, the long travel E. If I have decoded these properly in my head, I
feel like MT has got to be midtra. LT has got to be long travel. Yes. Does it say that?
I don't know if it says that anywhere. Okay. But like, makes sense. I'm going to hypothesize that putting it out there. So the so the mte is kind of
like a I'm going to call it a a upper half power bike because it is actually pretty powerful. It is for what it is.
What is it? 60 new n of torque I think. So it it punches above its like you know
whatever you want to call it. It punches above any other half power ebike. That's for sure. It's it's fast. It's the motor's quiet.
It's powerful and it it's it's what's what's nicest is like how quiet it is on
a downhill. Yeah. I think this LTE is like what the old 160e kind of it's like what it wants
to be. Yeah. Where Yeti's done a lot of work to make these to make the bike super dialed and
have all the ports the cable ports like tied into the frame. Um 6finity suspension like engineered
specifically for ebike kind of forces. Yeah. And then uh with the new Bosch um CX and
CX race motor, it's super quiet. Doesn't rattle around at all. So nice. And I think from what I can
tell, that's the only motor out there right now that doesn't rattle. Yeah. From what I've experienced, the TQ one's
pretty quiet. TQ one's pretty quiet as well. So, I'd say both of them. So, Yeti's kind of nailed that with their with their bikes right now.
Um, and it's just the experience is insane with that cuz you're just ripping and the bike's quiet, which is what I'm
always striving for when I'm building a bike personally or if it's a personal bike, I want it to be dead quiet. But,
agreed. Yeah. This one's 160 rear travel, 170 um front travel, 29 or MX, and it's got the
uh the new uh Bosch Gen 5 motor, which is pretty sweet if you ask me. It's got
800 W hours of battery. It's a beast. It's a beast. I took this on a ride um a couple weeks
ago, and it just is so long and just like
aggressive, like low, long, and slack. It just like it just needs to be on a aggressive trail.
It just wants to go fast. It wants to go fast. Like rough terrain for sure and steep like I I mean it
definitely requires Yeah. just a lot more uh you know wherewithal and like you know management just like how long
it is especially on like tight trails. Yeah. But um how quiet and just smooth and
also like Yeah. The new Fox I had a new Fox X2 a new 38 on there just dialed.
So dialed. Yeah. I mean, you better hope it's dialed. What is it, like a $12,000 bike?
Uh, for the one we're riding, yeah, it's actually 13. Oh, excuse me. $13,000 bike. So, yeah,
it's it's a worthy successor to the 160E, right? Like the 160E, we were like, this is an amazing bike, but the
rally motor is a little frustrating when you're paying this much for felt a little underpowered compared to like the
Bosch at the time. Yeah. And uh now it's got the new Bosch, which Yeah. 100 N of torque, 750 watts.
Screen in the top tube. Screen in the top. You can have an extender on it as well, which is pretty sweet.
That is insane. So 800 watts with an extender. Like you can get some pretty serious mileage out of that, I'm sure. Yeah, you could definitely you could
more than likely do more than what I did on the Amplow. I mean Mhm. wireless remotes, too. Um Yeah. I
don't know. It's just it's uh it's super dialed. I've I've I've been really impressed with the new Gen 5 Bosch stuff
personally. Yeah, the new the Gen 4 stuff was good. It was the fastest at the time, I'd say. But the new Gen 5 is so much more refined
and yeah, again, it's just quiet. It's nice. Yeah, I feel like they definitely took the biggest jump from Gen 4 to Gen 5 in
terms of just the refinement. Yeah. And the overall quality of the package. I also think the podium fork on this
kind of bike makes a lot of sense, especially with the podium being like a 170 fork. Still wish they like made that
180 or above. I think there's issues with that. But or adjust the travel at all. I think it just it makes sense. It just
like feels like a dirt bike. It's insane. It's That's pretty cool. It's so cool. Yeah, it I don't think it comes with an
MX kit. I think they all come 2929, but it has a flip chip compatibility that you could make it MX if you want.
That's nice. Which is sweet to have the option, honestly. I think a lot of customers with ebikes like to play around with
that kind of stuff. And I think having an MX on the ebike is fun, but also like if you want to just
have car carry more speed and rip trails like single track, then the 29iner makes a little bit more sense. I personally
like the MX on ebikes. I just think the the weight of the bike and then the way the MX corners and the way you lean it
over is just like a perfect combo on these bikes. And plus, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you get a a slightly stronger
wheel with the 275, right? Like Yeah. Like maybe a little less flex. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, that's there's
something there too with all the extra weight and like the G's that you're probably pushing cornering. Yeah. With a with a huge ebike like that.
Yeah. Except ebikes are definitely not pretty on wheels, tires, or or drivetrains or brakes for anything.
They're they're all they're super bike park. No. And this LTE we have has the DCT
Swiss carbon wheels, which they're amazing. They're super strong. But like I was riding like the rockiest trail in
Wildwood out here. And I was just like, "This bike is so heavy. I don't want to." And with the radials, I'm just
like, "I just don't want to blow up one of these wheels." Yeah. Jared has a uh has a knack for blowing up brand new ebike wheels. I've
done it more than once. Ebike bring ebike wheels. Down on the crust line. You did the
flow. Oh, the crust line. No, I did not. That wasn't him on the floor. That was not me. But I did break the
wheel on the crust line. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought I thought carbon goes boom. Yeah, but that was alloy went on the
crest line. Oh, yeah. It was It was cuz it had a tube in it and then it like
flatted and and not an appropriate tire. No. Yeah. Yeah.
All right. All right. I'll cut you catch you break. Thanks. Cut me some slack, land. Well, speaking of DC Swiss boys, should we uh
intro into our segment with our friends? Yep. Yep. Sweet. Here it is.
[Laughter] Thank you guys so much for joining us on the podcast. This is our friend Nick and
Niels from GTwiss. How you guys doing today? Good.
Very good. Thank you guys for having us. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for jumping on. Uh, real quick before I jump
in, why don't you guys tell us a little bit about uh what you guys do at DTS Swiss and um yeah, what your kind of
day-to-day role is. And my name is Neil. Uh I'm head of product management for uh for wheels,
everything that's around at DTS Swiss. I'm based in the Swiss office. Um yeah, working with a lot of departments, but
generally product management for for DD Swiss means that I accompany the the product development with together with
my team from the very first idea um and then to selling the actual product
together with Nick for example. So I usually join him a few times per year
while visiting customers. Nice. It's actually cool. So Niels, you do both mountain bike and
road? Exactly. Yeah. a team of like six people, so I'm not alone.
Yeah. Right on. Nice. Well, you guys have a couple of pretty exciting products coming out
right now. Um should we just go ahead and jump into the questions, Liam?
Yeah. Yeah. We'll be talking about the new rim, uh which came out about two weeks ago, and uh that's the new FR571.
And then a new product that comes out uh the day of this podcast which is the DTS
Swiss DEGDF. Is that correct? That's correct.
Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Richie's been on uh almost all season in the at least in the rear. Is
that correct? Richie Bird that is so but in the beginning we we gave this rim to to races. But yeah, as Vick said,
also with the with the weight, there comes some stiffness. And then we gave it also to a lot of bike park racers
here in Switzerland that are pretty fast. Um, and they also really liked it because they don't care as much about
stiffness. It's not like crazy stiff, but sure, it adds some. Um, but even
some super heavy guys, they they said, "Hey, I I cannot break this rim. It's it's perfect for me uh in the bike
park." Um, I mean it's not really expensive compared to other options and
um while you're having a an aluminium rim that is lasting so long. So um I
think racing on a racing scene we definitely see this as yeah a real option or some kind of the the wet
stream in our portfolio. But on the other side for for bike park racers um or bike park riders I think it's a
pretty solid option as well. It's not all all not just for racing. It's also for Yeah. Super durable room.
Nice. Yeah, I think we've all we've all lost a wheel or two to a bike park at some time. So, so it's nice to look
forward to trying these out. They look pretty legit. Super durable looking. For sure. The silver is back.
He loves to see it. All right, let's uh let's see. How about this next question?
And so did we talk about DED DEGDF yet or at all? No. Um, no. Yeah. How about uh you guys tell
us a little bit about that product? Well, they just started or it always started with an idea of having something
similar to O chain, something that eliminates ped kickback just where it's getting created um in the hub or at
drivetrain. And um yeah, we knew that there are there are solutions out there,
but we wanted to have something that is has more ease of use, that is maintenance or has way less maintenance
to it. Um we like in Switzerland and be we always say like the 240 concept where
we have the end caps and the free body that you can swap around. Um and yeah,
that together with a super light system was always the top priority. And
everything started with kind of an external project. It's always a bit difficult with um yeah pushing
innovation. And I mean we're not too many people, but um
when you come up with kind of niche ideas for for the majority of of people,
the title kickback was not the biggest topic and then come up. So yeah, it's
always it started completely with a with an external project. I had a friend and
he made some prototypes. We tried to figure out how we could put such a
technology or such a function in a freeup system. Um so so my friend did
the very first iteration of the system and then um yeah we we took it to DT and put all
the knowhow of our engineers in there and then one of our engineers um came up with that idea of having this edge
asometric um teeth on the outside of the ratchets u which realized in the end
that we have different settings with just yeah switching the setting of the of the ratchet Um and I think this is
the yeah the most solid and yeah easiest option. In the beginning we tried a lot
of uh with springs and elosmers and stuff like that but in the end this is
the very simplest yeah version of it and was the the one that worked best. So
pretty stoked on that. Yeah it's it's really really simple.
Nothing to go wrong nothing to adjust which is quite nice. and it adds zero weight.
So, okay. Yeah, it's kind of like uh the OG 54 to high engagement just like redesigned for
pedal kickback essentially. So, yeah, definitely you can just buy um
yeah, an upgrade kit and yeah, have a whole new function to your existing hub which is it's pretty cool.
Yeah, it's super cool. um of of these two products that you
guys just came out with, which one are you each most excited about? Yeah, the for me the coolest thing for
sure I was I was part of the development but on the other side um yeah putting
this in the help of of some friends and then the reaction of those guys. Yeah,
you can directly feel the difference and this is so cool that you that you can like experience. Usually we we change
this products on our bike and it feels a bit different. But um with this this is
a whole new yeah like layer of functionality of your bike and with the existing um products on the market it
was yeah not for everybody I would say but with this technology now it you can
put it in basically every bike uh that has a full suspension or it makes sense there uh and every bike that is a full
suspension bike and yeah just experience the difference.
Nice. Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah, it's kind of seems like there's no downside to have one because you can go
zero degree, 10 or 20. Um, as long as you have a DEG hub, it's kind of the
same, right? So, this is a question we have a little bit later, but I'll ask it now. Um, do you see this coming into
play for short travel applications a bit more because it is zero extra weight?
Um, and you can turn it off and on, you know, with just taking your wheel off.
Frame manufacturers or engineers, they look more and more on pedal kickback,
the the bigger the travel is of the bike. So when when they develop a down bike for sure, pedal kickback is the top
priority, which is not when you develop a short travel bike. So for example, everything that's like down down country
or trail, however you want to call it, um pedal kickback is a thing in in their
development, but not top priority. So also those bikes have pedal kickback and I ride it personally on my common cell
tempo and there's a huge benefit to it. Um it just feels so different. So
definitely also on short travel bikes makes a lot of sense especially if it doesn't add any weight.
Yeah, I'm curious to try it on my Yeti SR, which is like super XC, but it's a
single pivot flex day. And there's obviously limitations of how you can tune that suspension. So, I'm thinking
10 degree could give you some more suppleness, not a feedback in your feet, but zero extra weight than I'm running
running it out. Yeah, that's awesome.
Uh Le, do you want to ask um this next one? Although they kind of already talked about this internal versus
external solutions. Well, he's talking about external as in like it wasn't a project.
Okay. But when you guys first saw about pedal kickback, was it always going to the hub
and how you could make an insert to change that or were you thinking of
like, oh, maybe we can make something like a no chain to as a DT Swiss
product? Does that make sense? Yeah, sure. But I think the answer is pretty clear that we always looked at
something in the hub. Um when we looked at our the competitor products, yeah,
it's maybe I mean the weight is on a good spot, but on the other side, this is pretty Yeah, on the spot where where
the product is seeing a lot of dirt and and water. U so hide it somewhere like
this functionality makes a lot of sense. Um where it maybe also doesn't Yeah. add
more weight and on the other side a hub is already rotating you already moving things so why not integrating such a
function in there um I mean it's basically technically in the
same yeah um say yeah it's in in it's still been in
the drive train right so it's just started with an idea let's let's have a go and let's try to make it
happen and then Um, as I said first, we try to copy the function kind of with
springs, but the cool thing is the it always sets back just by by the drag of
the of the spring. So, the ratchet will always go into the zero or in the backwards position, starting position,
how you want to call it. Um, just by the drag. So, whenever you're rotating and
the the bike doesn't creates any pedal kickback, the ratchet will always be in the like starting position. And once
either you pedal or you the frame like creates pedal kickback the this the
ratchet has um this play or movement can move forward.
So we don't need too many spot parts. I mean technically it's same amount of parts as before.
Yeah. Having serviced O chains, uh, thinking about servicing this, which is
basically just a standard ratchet service, is really nice. It'll take 5 minutes versus
50 minutes or something like that. So, jumping back to rims, uh,
the F FR571 rim is now the burliest MT Swiss makes. The previous F FR541 rim,
uh, we'll try to throw in Wesler for three days, is pretty burly and tough. Uh, what was the demand for an even
tougher rim than the F FR541? Um, I think Nick already said it. It It
is basically an engineering prototype, but yeah, it made it to
the stage where we're going to sell it. Um this rim came out of like a few
prototypes that we that we did for like future products and development projects and then um this was the heaviest option
um or is it was also one approach and we had the possibility that we produce a
few more and and give it to bike park riders but also to World Cup riders.
Usually we try to um yeah have the first prototypes in the company, test them a
lot in our test lab and also with uh experienced um field test riders. But this time we had a few more and uh
distributed them through a lot of uh racers because also from a product management point of view I wanted to
have some more um like opinions. Is this
something that would a rider accept? because usually everybody's complaining about weight of rims and we're already
too heavy. Um so we wanted to have the the the opinion of of yeah real world
cup and um bike park riders and the output was or outcome was that they
really liked it that they don't destroy the rim. I mean um Richie was riding it in Vis sole and he bend the bar. He um I
think broke chain ring, bash guard, everything. And the rim just barely had
some cracks, but it was still like tupless setup was still fine. He could
could continue riding to the pits and he said like I would have definitely broke every other rim I was riding before. So
yeah, that was one of the experience we had with with Richie and yeah, we had
similar reports from bike park riders. So that was the point where like hey we
don't need to make necessarily a wheel because those those riders will Yeah. they are looking for custom builds. Uh
but let's offer this as a separate rim for those riders.
Yeah. So it wasn't necessarily asked for by racers. There was kind of like ETS going hey let's see how brick and sniff
then if people want to ride it. So, wasn't the races funny going destroying everything? I need some time.
Uh, this is this is not so so easy to answer because racers basically answer
ask for everything. They ask for like the soft like the smoothest rim. They
don't do they don't want to destroy it. Uh, it must be super light. So, I would
say uh it was one of their ass, but usually their ass comes with two or three others. So, it was one one path
that we followed and um yeah. Well, that's like a perfect segue into
this last question that we have, which is as riders ride harder and bikes take
more of a beating, do you guys see things hitting a stopping point in the world of making tough rims, or will the
evolution of rims continue to get stronger and heavier?
This is also not so easy to answer. Um I would say generally um yeah products and
other rims or our rims on the market get stronger and stronger every year. So the X471 or EX511 have been a bunch
benchmark. Um now we we're sitting here and having the FR571. Um but also on the other hand um frames,
suspension platforms, brakes, everything gets so much better. So um I think in
gerally we can say that on one side of it uh bikes get stronger but also more
capable. On the other side you also see cross country bikes that get lighter and lighter. So I would say the the options
as a consumer getting wider as well. I would say most probably maybe we end up
here sitting here in two years, three years and having 700 800 g rim or an
800. It's already 700. Um but maybe this
rim will be will be lighter but same like as strong as as this this rim. So
um it's super hard to answer and we always need to see a bike as a whole system. Everything needs to work
together. Um so yeah let's see what the future brings
for sure almost like the technology that you guys are you know evolving like and
that you have with this room will trickle down into you know lighter weight products and this will be lighter
eventually as well. The cool thing is now with the GDF as well, if you want to bring in that that topic again, if
you're looking into custom wheels back, um I mean, sure you have a heavier rim,
uh it's more solid. On the other side, the hub is so much lighter than competitors that offer high engagement
systems. And then on the other and then next to that, um you don't have something on your sprocket that adds
weight. So I think that if you look at the total system weight, um it will be less. So awesome.
Yeah. I mean, I have uh 240 DG hubs to X and 21 R on my ASR
right now. So, it's like it's a trail bike wheel on XC bike. Uh but, you know,
it rides really good. It's fun. Awesome. Well, that pretty much wraps up
uh this one. Thank you guys so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time and it's a pleasure having you on
and learning a little bit more about the, you know, DTSwiss inner workings and these cool projects you guys got
going on. Thank you guys. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll uh we'll
catch you guys in the next one and hopefully we'll talk to you soon. All right, byebye. Well, uh we got some pretty epic
listener questions. Let's start off with this nice fun lightigh-hearted one. If
you could swap lives, not wives, but lives with anyone for a day,
who would it be and why, Trevor? Oh, man. I don't know. I don't I'm thinking of my
answer right now. I know. Liam, do you have one? Um, I don't know. I'm going to say
[Music] it's like either someone cool and famous
or like totally different. Yeah, I think maybe like one of the
sometimes we get customers in here who are are retired and have done well with their career and live in a sprinter van
and go to the crested boot for a couple weeks. Oh yeah. Um yeah, that's a good one.
I could do that. That's a I don't even really think about that. It seems totally almost like uh Lared
Hamilton. Yeah, someone like that. Just like be able to like surf, work out, ride bikes all day. saw him and and
his lady at LAX this summer and I was just thinking to myself, where the heck are these guys going?
Hawaii, probably. Yeah, Tahiti or something like where are they going? Probably Hawaii. So, my knee-jerk answer before you guys
said anything was like Joe Rogan cuz that would be very interesting. Big podcast guy.
Jared has big ambition. Go record another podcast. No, I was thinking like it would be cool to go
like hit the sauna and cold plunge and like have some elk meat or something. Oh, well that's Larry Hamilton essentially.
Is that kind of They're up the same boat on that stuff. I don't know. You guys got me thinking it'd be cool to swap lives with somebody
who's kind of like a rich dirt bag, you know? Yeah. I think you I don't think you want to be rich and famous. I think you just
want to be rich. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think fame is attractive at all. No. No. I don't want to be Joe Rogan for
like the sake of like that, you know? Yeah. But like I think it And like he's got a pretty
cute golden retriever. He does. Jar, these are all very obtainable
things. Cold plunge, cold plunge, sauna, elk meat, golden retriever, very normal
things. I can just make that happen in my daily life. But but great, man. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. So, you know, so
I mean all I want to do is like ride bikes, eat good food, and work out all day. Yeah. So, so if I could have like a
combination of that, you know, like cold plunge, sauna, dog, elk, meat, ride
bikes all day, which really I could just make that my own life like you said, but it just that would take a little bit of
work. All right, you guys answer. Yeah, I think I I'm going to be a sprinter van guy. Yeah, sprinter van guy.
Yeah, but like retired and not obnoxious. Yeah. Yeah. Started some tech company, sold it. Now
you just live in a sprinter van and get to like dirt bag it around. Yeah. So, not like one specific person,
but like the lifestyle is what you were asking for. Yeah. No, that's fair. I'll accept that. I'm
not envious of anybody really. That's fine. Have a fun life. You know what they say? Uh
what do they what do they what do they say? They say envy is something and you shouldn't envy anybody. No.
Yeah. I never had it. Escapes me. I never had it. The saying
I never had it. I was going to say never had it. was it um comparison is a thief
of joy. Yeah, it's something like that. Something like that. But like Yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh when you guys read this
next one. All right. Hi guys. I've been looking to get a trail bike. The Canyon Spectral
AL6. It looked basically perfect for the local trails where we'll be riding. However, I'm torn between the full 29iner and mullet. What are the pros and
cons of the of each? I'm 510, which I think is a size medium. Actually, we answered this question.
Oh, yeah. You guys totally answered this question. But you know what? I got mostly through it. I'm 5'10, which I think is a size
medium. And do you have any other suggestions for trail bikes around 140 to 160? Thanks for the good work. Pot is
entertaining. Thanks, Dan. Yeah. See, I didn't get to answer this, so I'll jump in and give my two cents.
Um, so I say get the 29iner
because you're going to get more efficiency. And I personally I think that you're if
you're going to go mullet, you got to go long travel. Yeah. Like it's got to be 165 or like 160 and
up, you know, and like gravity oriented, which I guess he said 140 to 160, but like Yeah, like you said, like more
gravity oriented. Like don't go trail bike mullet. Go full 29iner trail bike.
Um pros and cons, I think we just kind of touched on that. You're going to get, you know, you're going to get more fun
cornering on the more gravity oriented bike. You're going to get better efficiency with the 29iner
and um other trail bikes around 40160. I mean, you got to say SB140. I I got to
throw my boy out there. That's my That's my bike. Um you riding boy. What? Um nothing.
No, it's a girl. She's a girl. Um do you have I mean
other trail bikes around 140 160? I mean the Druid's 130 which I I would still put that in there.
Yeah. Um, yeah. I think I said your Banshee is a great contender. I feel like Banshee Titan and what's the
other one? Is it the Prime? The Prime 135. Like Prime was such a fun bike to ride.
Um, super efficient. Like I was blown away by how fast that bike was and just like the handling like the Banshee
handling and the like the kinematics is so good. Um,
but I think I also said you got have the Specialized Stump Jumper, which can be in a closer price point to the
Spectral AL6 for sure. Yeah. Um, and TX Fuel EX with I think since we
answered this, they released a new one. I've heard that's a really good bike, which is a crazy like range. I think you can do like a
140 to 160 rear travel 29 or mullet all frame. Wo. Yeah, that's a I've heard that's
actually a really good bike. But I did like the previous one. So if there's previous ones out there on sale, could be a great time to snag up that.
Yeah. You know, what is 3 week old Fuel EX? Definitely still a buyer market.
Yeah. So those are all good. Yeah. I mean, people like uh you know,
Bronson's and High Towers. Bronson's Mullet, High Towers 2929, right? Yep.
So yeah, it's just kind of like what kind of flavor are you looking for? You know, you're looking for something like super fast and like,
you know, efficient or like something a little more playful and like transition sentinel. Yeah. Right in there, too.
Mhm. Do they do the smuggler? They do. 130. Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess it's on the lower end
of this as well. Uh, but yeah, it's kind of just like, you know, different strokes for different folks. Speaking of flavors, this next question
is about uh some crank arms. Nice segue. I'm looking to replace my cranks with some shorter ones. My bike came with
typical stock 170 mm cranks and I'm 5'7 with a 30-in inseam. I'm having a hard
time finding good sources of info on how to determine the right length. I'm sure I'm assuming it could give me a calculation from inseam length um
supported by a crotchrome meter video, but wondering if it's more complicated than that. Also, are there any bike fit
adjustments I should consider messing with around um after making the making the switch? Thanks for the laughs over
the years. Shout out to King Lentil. King Lentil from OG listener. Wow. Throwback.
I don't even know what that means. I just I I adopted a bean or I adopted a a rock and named King Lentil. I did see
that actually. This was in retaliation to be rise to fame. Rock. Liam has a famous pet rock because I
have a cat. It was King Lentil as Bean. Had lentils a bean. Lentil.
I had lentils for lunch today. But bean is a legume, I think. Whatever.
So funny. Um, all right. Craigs. Cranks. Cranks.
How about those cranks? I mean, 57 at a 30in inseam, I'd definitely throw you towards like 165s.
Yeah, 170. I was going to say 165 as well. And possibly 160s, but if you're
pedaling a lot, I don't know if I'd go quite that short. The studies show and everything says that doesn't really
affect you, but sometimes it feels like you're pedaling a hamster wheel when you go that short. Um GMBBN's video that
he's referencing crotchometer is actually five devs crotchometer which we have one.
It's interesting. Yeah. And I think it does put me on 165 for pedaling, 160 for gravity.
Oh yeah, is its thing. I have a I have a 33 in inseam though. Um
interesting. Yeah, 30in inseam is is relatively short as well. So I think yeah, some shorter
cranks would definitely help that. I think 16 would be a safe bet. Um, it's kind of what everything is going to be
on. I'm going to assume in a year or two. All my bikes are 165s right now. Yeah. I don't feel like I need to go shorter
unless I'm on a ebike or downhill bike for sure. Then I go 165s on a ebike.
Maybe 160s on a downhill bike. Mhm. I feel like it's also rare to see manufacturers with 160 mil cranks,
right? Like 165 is more common right now. Yeah, it's trending that way. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I I'd probably just
say 16 165s if you're pedaling a lot. It's going to feel better on your hip flexors, not not closing them out as
much and not having as much knee bend. And bike fit adjustments, you just have to raise your seat up a couple more mil.
Mhm. Yeah. So, 2.5 mil. 2.5 mil. 5 mil.
And you also have to one of the two. There's also a change in your chain ring, right? If you go different crank
lengths, it's like I don't know. But me and Tideman got really in the weeds on this at
Downingville. Yeah. Because like let's say you go from a 32 to a to a 36 or like a 30 let's say a 32 to a 34
is like a pretty big jump. Like would you have to go you have to go up up in chain ring or down a chain? You would go down technically because I
think 165s with a 30 170s with a 32 would be like a 165s with a 33.
So it make it a touch harder. But it's like it's kind of weird because are you going off leverage ratio or by how fast
you're spinning circles? Cuz in that case, you'd want to size up and we couldn't really figure it out. And Tyman has way more actual like
science and like knowledge behind it and he's like spinning out like math equations.
I don't know. I'm going off field. I'm going using me, dude. You're smarter than me. Um, go a butt dyno. But so yeah, I'm on same
size chain ring. I've always been on 34 on the XC bike, 32 on the trail bike. Yeah, that's not going to be a huge
difference. Got you. Yep. Cool. Yeah. Well, there you go. How about this next one? What's up, guys? Long time
first time. First and foremost, thank you for everything you do for the mountain bike community and the countless hours of entertainment and
information you've given to your listeners. Our group is taking a birthday trip to Sedona in November, and we have a ton of hikes planned. We're
also looking to rent bikes and get a day of trail riding in. The skill level spectrum is pretty wide, so we're
looking for trail suggestions that novice and more experienced riders could do together. Again, thank you for all
you do and your Hellsgate grips are a perfect compliment to my Stumpy Evo. Nice. Very nice.
Very nice. Well, so Sedona in November, hopefully it's not snowing. Yeah, it should be really nice, actually.
It should be nice. Should be nice and cool. Mhm. Um just Yeah. Hopefully cuz we did the um was the mountain bike festival out
there? Sedona Mountain Bike Fest. That was in March. Yeah. Okay. So that's a little different. They're actually moving it to November
next year. Are they? They are. Yeah. Cool. So maybe they're planning it around the Sedona Mountain Bike Fest, but yeah, that was that was a crazy turn
of investment. Um yeah, but I think the west side is all pretty chill. That's what I was going to say.
Bunch of green kind of blue trails. Some fun pedaly stuff. Stay away from the H trails like Hogs.
Yeah, Hog Highline, Hangover. Stay far away from those cuz they're super gnarly. But even if you're
like around Slim Shady, that's what I was going to say. Slim Shady is a really fun trail and it could
and it, you know, probably a couple little extra credit lines for people with the skill. Some of the stuff up near I think
teacups as well, it can be pretty chill. Like for sure, I don't know if anything's really chill
in Sedona. Yeah, like you're always going to have the weird steppy kind of rock steps and weird awkward moves, but um yeah, stay
away from the H's and you should be basically be good. Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that. I mean, if you're not into like extreme
riding, which most people aren't, then I would say the green trails are probably way more fun in Sedona than the black
trails. You know, the black trails are like it's like anti- flow, super hard, and just
like jank and maybe not what everyone's used to. And the green and blue trails are going to be more XC flow rolling rolling speed
carrying speed everywhere. It'll be it' be pretty fun. Definitely. Um yeah, Liam, that one trail over by Teacup. Um I'm looking at
the Trail Forks right now, but um let's see. Let's
No, I'm having a hard time uh remembering the name.
Yeah, I'm not positive. You know, it's the one that kind of is like across the road from that um Brewer
Trail. Okay. So, there's that Adobe Jack. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, that's kind of more flat, I
think. But you could still have fun. Like that's kind of I guess Teacup's a black. Teacup is a black.
I didn't know that. I thought it was a blue. Um that kind of zone. Yeah. Like teacup, Adobe Jack. There's a bunch of fun
Adobe Jack and something else that runs parallel to it. Yeah, they're both pretty fun. Yes, Grand Central and Anthill. Um those
are super fun. And yeah, the West Side has a bunch of other fun trails, too. Slim Shady is a great one. Um
yeah, pretty much. Honestly, a lot of the blue trails would probably be fine. But yeah, I learned the lesson the hard
way. I was like, well, I went to Sedona like probably at least 10 years ago and I was staying on the airport messa right
where Brewer comes off of. Yeah. And I rode the airport loop with my buddy and it's just like super flat,
janky, like pretty brutal. Yeah. And I think that might be the last time he ever rode a mountain bike.
Yeah. It was like I think it's I think it's super important that when you're kind of introducing someone to riding mountain
bikes that they have a positive experience cuz the sport is a bit of suffering and it's a bit of a bit of type two
sometimes. And if you can make that first ride like positive experience, no heat stroke, no
bonking, no no drops and stuff like that, then they will be so much more likely to get
back on the horse for sure. Um cuz it is obviously everyone's listening here loves mountain biking.
some of the most fun you can have if you can uh get past that. Yeah, definitely.
And Sedona is not the place for that. No. But yeah, stay stay, you know, in the blue trails. You'll have a good
time. They'll have a good time for sure. Yeah. And if you haven't rented bikes already, go to Absolute Bikes.
Mhm. Rent from there and you're really close to Slim Shady Trail. Oh, perfect. Down the street. They'll
show you the map and and they can show you where to go as well. Give you the give you the beta. That's a great call, Liam. Yeah,
that's a really really great call. I'll read this next question here. Perfect.
Hi, worldwide crew. You you guys might be the best B one of the best podcast teams around. Wow, thank you.
Shout out. I had a few questions about buying mountain bikes for kids. I'm finding it tough to deliver just a couple of
concise questions though, so maybe this is a discussion point. My dilemma is my youngest two kids, eight and 10, do
enjoy mountain biking, but only when it suits them. They're not as into it as me and definitely not as into it as you
guys. I'm trying to give them a gentle shove in the right direction. Well, this is a fitting question. Um, they are both
on 20-in wheel bikes, which they're out growing fast and will probably skip the 24-in stage. Um, I want to get them good
quality bikes that will help them help them enjoy the trails. Um, but as they are pretty casual enthusiasts, I cannot
justify anything too pricey. Um, I'm trying to find something under $1,000 Canadian. That's around 250 US.
Seed, that's not Canadian. That's not Canadian, is it? Somewhere else. Um, so 250 US I think it is, but I think
actually Google tells me it's 725 US. I think he's joking. Okay, I was gonna say we were just in
Canada. The 750 the 725 sounds about more. Yeah. Okay. So he's just joking. So it's about
725 US. What do you think is more important on entry level uh mountain bike for kids? Personally, I would do
away with the heavy sprung front forks. Stick to rigid forks, tires. I would put that a savings towards
replacing the cable actuated disc brakes with hydraulic. think a nice light lever and confidence of braking when they need
it would be right up there with the priorities. I'm currently thinking of doing the Da Vinci Ewok 26 and upgrading
the cable disc brakes to hydraulic. Uh, love to know your thoughts. Huge fan of the pod and business 2.0. Regards from
Stu. Sup, thanks for tuning in. Mhm. Um,
I mean, I think it's pretty on the money. Yeah, but I would I mean I feel like I would
try to just skim the use site. That's what I was going to say. stuff like
um like you're saying, kids are growing out. Kids are always going to be growing out of these 26-in bikes. Um
I think we're probably a little bit past buying 26-in bikes that were like modern back
in the day cuz those are kind of now outdated. Yeah. Um but yeah, there's a lot of kids bikes
out there that are like 26 in that are sick. And we were just saying at Whistler like these kids are ripping
such sick bikes and like they're going out of them, right? So uh there's definitely a market for that somewhere, especially in Canada, too.
Search Pink bike, Facebook marketplace. Yeah, I feel like you could like you could snag, you know, a size small 26 in
like, you know, maybe like a 2013, you know, like a 12 or 13y old bike, you
know, like anything 26 on that kind of, you know, mid-travel range or hard tail or
whatever. Even that or yeah, try and get lucky and trying to find like a dedicated kids bike too. Yeah. Or go for a dedicated bike.
Those are a thing now. Like us growing up, those were not a thing that they are now. It definitely had uh super, you know,
cuz bikes were just weird when I was growing up, right? Like we still had like V- brakes and Yeah. Oh, you know, sports bikes.
Weird. Yeah. Exactly. But even when like I had a giant full suspension like my first nice full suspension I was probably 10 years old
and um and it was just Yeah. like very bad suspension and brakes and like all the
everything. Triple triple ring. Yeah, exactly. 3x7. Anything that you get now that like is
going to be way better than that. Um but yeah, I do think if he's going new
like where he's going is right like ditch the spring fork, get cable or get hydraulic disc brakes,
you know? Yeah, go tubeless. Definitely good brakes are going to be huge confidence boosters. good tires.
Um, but yeah, I think also with the eight and 10year-old, they're not going to be enthusiasts. Like they want to
play soccer, they want to do this, they want to do that, and like they're not going to be dedicated. So just getting them a bike to ride and having
it fun for them is like first and foremost. You don't want a heavy bike. You don't want a bike that's like
doesn't fit them cuz you just want them to have fun. So you can get like like a cheap Specialized like hard tail as well. Um,
for I'm just looking up right now. You can get it for like $800, $900 US. There you go. Um, like a hard rock or rock hopper or
something like that. Um, is like a perfect entry level bike. My first mountain bike was a GT Avalanche hard
tail. I bought same thing pretty much. I bought it off my my friend for like $300
and rode rode it a lot and it was awesome, you know. Um, 26 in and it fit
me. was large and uh yeah, something like that can go a long way and hopefully they can catch the bug and get
stoked on it like I did. For sure. Mhm. Well said. Yeah, I mean I would agree.
Yeah, they go something super entry level from like Yeah, kind of a bigger brand that is brand new.
Yeah, go for like a big box brand like Specialized Giant Trek, one of those kind of
kind of stores and companies and you can get something decent or that's going to be safe for them as well for sure. that's going to have actual
good disc brakes on it. Maybe not hydraulic, but you could you could uh maybe save for the hydraulic disc brakes cuz I do think that is important.
Yeah, I remember when I was on my first hard tail, it did have cable actuated disc brakes, and I remember having to uh
break with all three fingers on each hand, but I couldn't produce enough power to slow it down. And hydraulic
disc brakes would have been a nice luxury for that, but it it I learned the difference. So, that's a core memory, though.
A core memory cuz it was quite scary. You don't have enough braking power. I didn't know how to work on anything, so I didn't They were probably not set up
correctly either. Yeah. I have a similar core memory of riding said Giant in Mammoth Bike Park when I
was probably 10 or 11 years old, like coming down a shoot like levers into the grips and just like not slowing down.
Yeah, cuz you got V brakes, rim brakes, whatever you want to call them. Yeah. Good times. Yeah, good times. But yeah, or at the
very least I would, you know, check out the pingpike buyell because you're
guaranteed to find something like at least a little more exciting and like cool and might find some gold on there.
You might find some gold on there. Yeah. Speaking of gold, thank you guys so much for tuning in. I think that just about
wraps this one up. Um, if you are browsing the worldwide cycle website and
you're looking for something or if you're just like itching to upgrade your bike or you need something, go ahead and
punch in the code MTV podcast 10 on there cuz it'll get you a little
something little something off. That'll be 10% off. Treat yourself. Treat yourself. And thank you guys all
so much for tuning in. We really do appreciate it. And we'll see you in the next one. Cheerio.
See you. Love you. Love you. [Music]
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