Crestline Bikes Founder Troydon On Creating A Bike Brand, eMtb Future Innovation & More... Ep. 114 [Podcast]

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ladies and gentlemen welcome to the MTB

0:07

podcast episode 114 we apologize for not being consistent with our podcast as we

0:14

have been doing summertime things and also I was sick but this podcast we have a special guest because Jared is

0:21

currently in Whistler still in Whistler asking a girl to marry him so it is myself I am Jeff

0:28

I am trying Liam and Troydon here Troydon is the

0:34

co-founder of Crestline bikes uh if you've listened to the podcast for a while you've heard us talk about Crestline plenty of times uh Troydon is

0:42

the friend of ours that was the co-founder of Crestline so we're gonna ask him all sorts of various questions

0:47

that we came up with and ones we got from our audience about Crestline bikes and also hitroid with some other random

0:54

mountain bike questions just to hear his answers because he's an experienced South African mountain biker tell us

1:01

about yourself Troy well um you probably know I love riding bikes

1:08

and started kind of late in my life

1:13

um and basically felt like I had to catch up so as soon as the e-bikes came around I was

1:19

like sweet I can get more down here riding in so jumped on the wagon pretty

1:25

quickly uh yeah yeah so e-bikes I mean I just out of curiosity because I remember

1:30

the early days of Crestline it was you were kind of thinking it was going to be an e-bike only company but then you made

1:38

a downhill bike so where where are you guys going at this point so

1:43

I guess like the first bike I ever had was a downhill bike and that was sort of how I got into mountain biking

1:50

um so I you know I just fell in with a group that was really into downhill or did a bunch of shuttling

1:56

so that was sort of my entry into it and then uh actually went the opposite

2:01

direction to most people who start you know on more the sort of peddly side of things and then migrate to the gravity side I

2:08

started the gravity side and then got more into pedaling bikes as got out as I got more into bikes

2:15

um realized I wasn't that great at pedaling up the hill and [Music]

2:20

um so when e-bikes came along jumped on one of those and yeah just you know was

2:26

like okay cool I can get on board with this uh just get to have the fun and uh avoid the pain

2:33

which some people don't see the same way I do um but yeah and then uh when we started

2:41

making the e-bike uh I think it was more you know obviously we have this I have

2:46

this downhill kind of background so there's my business partner Mark and

2:52

because of how long things were taking to actually get the e-bike going we decided to do a downhill bike uh to kind

2:58

of keep us busy while we were waiting for parts and whatnot during Covid so that's kind of why we did that and we

3:05

also thought it'd be a nice cool thing to have a downhill bike which is kind of the heritage of the brand and the fact

3:11

that we love gravity riding and that's where we come from ultimately so

3:17

yeah yeah I I got the sense that you guys don't really care too much about

3:23

many things other than making really good bikes that you yourselves want to ride is that kind of a good way to look

3:29

at it yeah I think that's definitely a good way to look at it um at the time when we started

3:35

there weren't a ton of options out there as far as you know the longer travel

3:41

e-bikes they did start coming out right around when we started and you know

3:46

obviously at that point we were like cool well the trains left the station uh we still think there's some stuff that

3:52

we can add and some value we can add by doing our own bikes and yeah so we

3:57

focused on those things and and you know forged life yeah that's cool

4:04

um I'm stoked I think uh I've I've spent a small amount of time on some Crest lines but Liam has ridden them a lot

4:10

more and he can probably speak to more of of how they ride Liam you rode the the downhill bike in Whistler a lot last

4:17

season and then the e-bike quite a bit this season right you're you're somewhat in love I would say

4:23

yeah I mean the downhill bike is pretty incredible I spent pretty much most of

4:28

my bike park time on of download Bike last season so locally shuttles Big Bear Summit

4:35

um and then like four days in Whistler with Troydon last summer um on the downhill bike so it's pretty

4:41

fun to ride that just works really well it's definitely pretty purpose-built race bike

4:46

um and then yeah the the e-bike is just uh it rips like there's not much much

4:53

else to describe it it's got the Bosch motor it rides good uh it's pretty confident inspiring

5:01

um and it is a full power so it's you know 50 plus pounds but it still has pretty good maneuverability

5:08

um you know buzzwords playful Poppy and stuff for being a 50 50 pound bike so

5:14

I think I was on the e-bike when you were riding the downhill biking Whistler yeah

5:21

yeah it's actually pretty fun in the bike park some guys uh might not agree

5:27

and might think well if you're there and you go to chairlift tomorrow you know why not ride the dining white I think

5:33

um the reason I wasn't on one at that time was you were possibly riding my downhill bike right Liam and we just set

5:39

it up for you I think he only had two at the time and one might have been another Media company and then I just wrote

5:44

yours so yeah and actually what I found with the e-bikes in the in the bike park is that extra weight kind of deadens all

5:52

the breaking bumps um and yeah it's pretty stable in the the

5:58

big Like Bike Park turns and burns so they're pretty fun and then you've got like pretty big jumps so it's not like

6:05

you're trying to pop off something small like you would on like a little trail bike you're sending pretty big jumps so

6:10

that the extra weight actually is quite nice in the air bike feels pretty stable

6:15

yeah definitely and I mean on a testing side of things what's a better use than

6:20

to get what we do last week we did 17 000 feet of descending in one day like yeah as far as testing durability and

6:28

and feeling in different parts go like that's probably the best case you could do so yeah definitely a good way to test

6:34

the e-box man yeah nothing eats bikes and bike parts more than Whistler bike park and just Whistler in general yeah

6:41

so and and I think last year I must have done like

6:48

a couple trips up there and you know like the entire trip with you Liam was on the e-bike and definitely a good few

6:54

trips back afterwards or so on the e-bike and just yeah went through some rear wheels but

7:01

um everything else seemed to hang together all right so yeah yeah Troy and you you spent a lot of

7:07

time riding Rocky Peak which is fairly local to us and used to be local to you

7:12

back when you lived in SoCal now you're in Bellingham but Rocky Peak seems like it was one of those areas to me that

7:19

enlightened a lot of people to how much fun e-bikes could be and full power e-bikes because the well Liam you can

7:26

probably describe it better it's like there's a what is it like eight mile climb and then a two mile descent or how does the layout work yeah I don't know

7:33

the mileage is exactly but it's roughly like three to four hundred feet of a road climb and then like five to eight

7:40

hundred feet of a pretty steep Fire Road and not very many miles um so on a normal bike I would do three

7:49

maybe four laps when I was pedaling Enduro bikes quite a bit and like you'd be pretty smoked on that third fourth lap like I think I actually had my two

7:55

biggest crashes at Rocky Peak like on a fourth lap day um Trojan would probably only make maybe

8:01

two maybe three of those Laps on a pedal bike and I'd probably be whining and asking you guys to shuttle me on the

8:08

road section yeah pretty much um so yeah I mean the e-box just open up

8:13

options right you can basically kill a battery and you're pretty smoked as far as your arms go but like you know you're

8:19

you're still with it on the downhill you're not delirious and like so tired from pedaling basically a thousand feet

8:25

of lap um with you know 34 pound bike because you need downhill tires you need you

8:31

know 160 170 180 milk travel Forks up there so yeah because that I mean after you do

8:38

the the climbing you have uh what five plus different downhill trails to ride

8:44

that are all super well built and really fun and people absolutely love and like that's the motivation for kind of doing

8:51

laps at this place yeah the thing is maybe even like eight now um nice but they're all quite proper

8:58

downhill Trails like we we have a joke like from riding other local places on

9:03

the bikes you go to Rocky Peak and you gotta add five PSI to your fork and 10 year shock like right away you have

9:09

rocky Peak pressures just because the compressions are so hard and uh the rock drops and stuff so pretty chunky Trails

9:15

for sure yeah you know yeah that and I mean that I'm assuming that area

9:21

um kind of was part of the inspiration right of of the longer travel full power e-bike for you Jordan I think so I think

9:29

um I think the key for us was if you're gonna have a bike that you can pedal to the top

9:35

and you have a bike that has the right characteristics while still having long travel

9:44

there's no downside really right to having that extra travel if you've got a bike that's got all this travel but then

9:51

feels wallowy and feels cumbersome and and then you're kind of getting all these downsides to that and then then

9:58

you can sort of see like well you know is it worth having all that travel but if you can get the platform to work in a

10:04

way that doesn't have those downsides but yet you have the extra travel there's no sense not having it because

10:10

you're climbing up the mountain with with a motor right so and

10:16

um yeah that was a a big reason why we went that route but also

10:22

it just depends on on where you ride right and so I actually have my bike set

10:28

up in a weird in between mode that anyone can do and that is if you take

10:34

our bike you use the full length stroke and you you flip the chip into the short

10:40

travel setting it reduces the travel from 175 to 163. and you can pair that

10:47

with like a 170 fork and have a 170 163 bike and where I ride now that's kind of

10:55

my sweet spot um so just depends say say you used to live

11:01

near Rocky Peak and then you moved to another area where you just don't have

11:06

those kinds of trails the nice thing is to be able to you know cater to that and change your bike and

11:12

not have to go out and buy another bike also people that are starting out and are not necessarily someone who thinks

11:19

they need a ton of travel nice to start at a 150 level right 150 160 is still a

11:24

decent amount of travel um you know progress as a rider and then be able to bump that up without being in

11:31

a position where you have to go out and get another bike you know um so I think that was all of those things

11:38

were taken into account when we designed the bike and worked on the bike um obviously for us you know we're and what

11:46

I'm seeing too is the long travel version is just the most popular there's there's no disputing that you know

11:53

um and I think it's because the bike's still feels very similar in either setting

11:59

yeah yeah totally so just for for clarity the RS 205 that's the full-blown

12:05

downhill bike not an e-bike and then the RS 7550 and then the RS 5075 give us

12:10

give us the little rundown of like how those the longer travel and the less less travel work on the e-bike models

12:16

so um in hindsight I've also realized that this the the model names and stuff are a

12:24

little confusing um not the first or last person on the bike industry to make confusing model names yeah so but the reason we did it

12:32

went like that was literally like um it is the travel setting right so the the 205 is the downhill bike comes with 205

12:39

mils of travel that box got some flexibility as well Liam knows um there's like a short stroke option which

12:44

drops it at 190. we do have a link that um Cascade have been working on actually get it all the way down to 180

12:51

um and people some people have set those up as Enduro bikes I've actually seen a couple with transmission on them we've

12:57

got an idler pulley that um uh Cascade are working on that's set up for the new

13:02

flat top chain and everything so that'll really help those guys that want to have that as like a Burly Enduro bike and

13:08

then when it comes to the e-bike um the way we did the model number was just the way it was uh set up from the

13:14

factory so uh if it was built as a long travel version in the long travel settings the

13:19

75 comes first that's 175 rear travel right and then you can adjust it all the

13:25

way down to 150. so that's why we did 75.50 and then vice versa for the shorter travel one so if it left the

13:32

factory as a 150 bike then it's a 5075 you still have the opportunity to bump

13:38

it up to a 175. um so yeah definitely uh seen much more

13:46

people wanting the long travel I think what we'll probably do in future is spec

13:51

most of the bikes if not all of them as the long travel version and then we can always do the change or facilitate what

13:58

needs to happen to change it to either the slightly shorter travel or the 150 travel if someone wants to go that route

14:06

uh I think it's going to be simpler for us then uh changing as many as we had to change

14:12

from the short travel to the long travel if that makes sense yeah yeah so the RS

14:18

7550 uh is 175 of your travel stock with a 184. yeah correct the RS 50 75 is 150

14:28

rear travel stock of the 164. yeah cool and then how do you adjust the

14:35

travel ranges so uh there's a flip chip on the lower link

14:41

and on the 150 travel version you're running a 230 by 57.5 inch shock

14:48

with the flip chip set in the short travel setting so in St and to get the full amount of travel

14:54

you're running a 230 by 65 shock and you have the flip chipset in the LT

15:01

setting long travel yep nice so do you think just this is

15:07

just out of my own curiosity um do you think that it's a little confusing for some Riders who are kind

15:15

of I guess if you're buying a bike as high end as a Crestline you're you're pretty into it but it is it is slightly

15:21

confusing and it's have you run into problems just like explaining how all this works because even telling someone what a flip chip is definitely know what

15:29

that is it's kind of kind of hard it is it it is definitely a bit confusing I

15:35

think like you said we've been pretty fortunate with a lot of customers that are really into biking really into e-biking

15:43

specifically know what they're looking for and

15:48

so the majority of the customers we've had kind of know what what's happening with

15:53

all that stuff flip tips have been around for quite a while so especially on this kind of a

15:59

platform sometimes just for a geometry change or a BB height change

16:04

so it's not too difficult but I think for definitely some some confusion and

16:11

yeah it is it is something that maybe I need to clarify a bit more make a little

16:18

bit simpler on the website and I think that's also kind of why we've been LED

16:24

down the shroud of you know just doing the focusing on the long travel one um but making it clear to people that we

16:31

can adjust it to a shorter travel bike if they would like us to and then you know having that as something we would

16:37

do for them yep yeah that's cool and it seems like I mean a lot of that stuff from what I've seen has been explained

16:43

quite well and a lot of the press you guys have gotten so um pink bikes done a full ride up

16:48

obviously we have it worldwide and then uh Rob rides emtb he did a really good video on the bike so there's some

16:55

there's some people that are already creating some pretty cool content on the thing any other media that you're you're

17:00

stoked on you guys have gotten in the last year yeah so I I think um you've definitely mentioned uh the main ones we

17:08

do have vital uh who's going to be releasing one fairly soon they had uh

17:13

have had a bike for a while um and then uh Rob rides is going to do

17:19

a ride review fairly soon as well I think a lot of those guys are busy with Euro bike and then obviously all the

17:26

World Cup races that have just happened you know all the media sites have been pretty swamped with that kind of stuff

17:31

um so yeah we'll you'll definitely see a couple more coming out fairly soon and it has been really good to to have

17:38

people like that expanding things as well because um someone like Rob for example is

17:44

when we watch this video we were like you know he really does a good job at you know making his point

17:51

um as far as all the little features and how they work and so it is actually

17:56

really nice having people like that out there to help you get get that information across to people because

18:01

what we're also trying to do is is provide something with some flexibility

18:06

to people you know we're we're a small company um we're focused on a very specific

18:12

bracket and we want to provide a really cool experience to people you know and

18:18

we could be looking at it differently and be like well if we did this way we could sell more bikes or we but we just

18:25

want to provide something really cool for people and give them a bunch of options right and really have someone give someone the ability to really dial

18:31

in their bike and have something that they're really happy with and then also the ability to change and tweak things

18:37

right sometimes writing the same thing gets a bit boring after a while and it's kind of fun to trust anything different

18:42

even if it's just different um and you can kind of be like oh cool I can feel how different that is or you

18:49

know that improves this but then you know this is not as great and it's kind of nice to have that

18:56

um because that's part of writing as well right and you can get to like experience that without having to go out

19:01

and have all these different bikes so to speak so I think that also just adds to the experience of of being able to get

19:08

out there and enjoy you know what our sport it has to offer yep yeah I agree I

19:14

definitely agree I uh I like to change up random things on my bike not not as

19:19

often as Liam or as often as Liam tries different disciplines um but but to some extent I I'm always

19:27

perplexed that Liam can be you'll you'll be on a road bike one one day and then a

19:34

downhill bike and then it's lightweight and then a full power you bike and yeah how do you manage this Liam the hardest

19:41

part is the maintenance on the bikes themselves the easy part is riding them [Laughter]

19:47

uh yeah yeah it's pretty funny well this this runs slightly into some Lister questions but

19:53

um yeah what are what are kind of future plans I mean you're with with Crestline uh what do you what are you guys trying

19:58

to boil the ocean with with premium level e-bikes or or whatever what's kind of like the ethos of where you guys are

20:04

driving forward with the bikes you're making in the future so I mean that's definitely our Focus right we we want to

20:11

make sure we're we want to make sure we keep having like the best uh full power e-bike experience

20:18

and I think that will always be our Focus this might lead into some questions as well

20:24

but um we have really looked at the lighter power bikes as well and

20:32

in a perfect world for me there would be a bike that's tailored to the person

20:37

purchasing the bike and I might get different kinds of pushback

20:42

on this um but in a perfect world for me is like say you're a 130 pound guy on uh either

20:50

a small or a medium I feel like your bike shouldn't have as much power output as the guy on the full the the sort of

20:57

guy on the XL who's 220 um because that way you could potentially have a smaller motor you

21:04

could potentially have a smaller battery your bike would be somewhat lighter and the weight of that bike would be

21:09

relative to your weight so you would still have the same experience as somebody on a higher powered bike that's

21:16

heavier that's a bigger person and I think there's something to be said about that I think you will get pushback where

21:22

the other guys were like well whatever I'm smaller but that's cool I want the more you know all the power and all the

21:28

range and all about I don't care about the weight um so you know we'll have to explore

21:35

that a little bit more but I think there's going to be a lot of really cool options that you know are presented to

21:42

to people in the future and you know you'll be able to really choose what you want to get out of this if you're into

21:49

e-biking um what I have what we also did notice when

21:54

we were considering you know where we would start and where we want to go is um

21:59

there's just more full power e-bikes out there right there were just you know they were the ones that came out first

22:05

more people have them a lot of people want to ride with their friends you know

22:10

um so when they decide to get an e-bike they look around and see what their friends have right and you know if you

22:17

want to go ride with your friends and you have a half power bike and then you know certain people might be able to to

22:23

get away with it um if you're a smaller guy pretty fit you might be able to hang with some guys

22:28

on football but I said are bigger guys um but if you're a bigger guy and you're trying to get on the

22:34

horsepower bike go ride with a bunch of dudes on full power bikes you're probably going to be killing yourself you're not going to have the range that

22:40

you need so again like we just felt like there was more of a uh a need for full

22:49

power bikes and that's not to say we'll never do a half power or a lighter lighter weight bike we just think that

22:56

that's like the real Focus for us but now it's just having the best in that category and then building from that

23:02

yeah nice how many how many bikes do you imagine you'll have in five years

23:09

how many different bikes yeah it's hard to say I mean uh as you know

23:15

it takes quite some time to develop a bike yeah so so five years is actually

23:21

not that far away um in in those terms um

23:26

I'd like to think we'll always have at least two to three different

23:32

suspension level full power e-bikes so from a fairly

23:38

short travel to like a long travel maybe we end up bumping up our travel even more on the longer travel side of things

23:45

so it depends on how you look at that like what you know there might be a company out there who has two e-bikes

23:51

but we pretty much have the same you know even though it's one frame uh

23:57

config different configurations I remember when uh I can't remember who it was but they did

24:03

like um is it Yeti they did like a lunch ride or they did different configurations of a certain bike that

24:09

almost made it another bike even though it was you know something else pretty

24:14

specific so when I look at it like that um you know two or three full power

24:20

models maybe a lightweight model or two uh

24:25

you know we we did this downhill frame which was kind of cool because

24:31

we were in a position where it was really hard to get parts um and so we were quite far along with

24:38

the e-bike but actually getting parts to put them together to bring them into country was what was holding us up and

24:44

that's when I decided to do the downhill frame uh actually kind of uh you uh prompting

24:52

that as well because I remember you talking about Nico putting me in touch with Nico started turning to him he had

24:58

been talking to um uh Jimmy and Cascade and they had been

25:03

working a bit with each other and then like we were working with Cascade because they helped us with our kinematics and you know and then you

25:10

know one thing led to another and we decided to make the this like limited edition down here by

25:16

um and it came about quite quickly because of the way we did it and I think there's an opportunity for us to

25:22

potentially do something else like that um you know which could also be cool and

25:27

kind of bridge a gap between uh how quickly technology moves and what we

25:33

want to do on our next e-bike because I think what is important for us too is to make sure that when we do that

25:40

um we choose the right partners and we do the right bike at the right time and

25:46

that our bike comes out with all the right stuff as opposed to just you know

25:52

feeling like we have to do something quickly or do something different or you know there's like two years have passed

25:58

by we need a new bike like I'd rather spend a little bit more time making sure that the next thing we do is the right thing

26:04

um rather than just doing something to do something you know yep

26:10

I like it man it's it's an it's an answer of many words and a lot of

26:16

passion and attention to detail and thoughtfulness um and not not a typical politician uh

26:25

lack of clarity answer but in one way it is but it's good it's like you you're not it's funny

26:32

because if you know one way to answer that question could have been a very concise like oh we have this dialed in

26:38

product roadmap and here's what we're gonna do and here's what we promised our sales teams the product team would produce it's like nah you answered the

26:44

question as a true mountain biker who's designing bikes that you really care about um and not as like a uh you know I think

26:52

that's what helps us too though Jeff is that we're we're we're small right so we don't have

26:57

those kind of constraints where you have those pressures where you have to make those decisions and you have to make them so far ahead and you know like when

27:05

we did the downhill bike we started in December of 2021. we were selling them in

27:11

I want to say August or September of 22. you know that's like an eight months and

27:17

that's not to say we didn't test them and we didn't like do what we needed to do it's just that we did it in a

27:22

slightly different way that was a little bit outside of the box right we used a prototype mold was made in the r d

27:28

Center they can do it quicker we could get them back to test quicker like everything was quicker but then we were

27:34

limited to the number that we could make so yeah so I think you know it does give

27:40

us a bit of freedom to do things like that and um yeah it's like you said too we just want to try and make the best bike we

27:46

can because we're riding these bikes as well right and I want to ride a cool buy

27:52

so I want to make sure that we make the best thing and so yeah I'm yeah

27:57

definitely like paying attention to what's happening looking at the new like Solid State Battery tech that's being

28:05

charted everywhere and waiting to see what different manufacturers start using

28:10

um you know and just do the best to make the best decision we can to provide you

28:16

know customers with something cool yep yeah it's rad I love it man well cool before I ask too many of the listener

28:23

questions let's take a quick break and then we will get into some more of these rapid fire listener questions in just a

28:30

moment and now a word from our sponsors hello everyone Jeff again just a quick

28:36

note to let you know that we have actually had just a couple cancellations on this crazy Italian mountain bike trip

28:44

that we are taking with the tour company all Mountain rides this September 3rd to the 10th it's going to be incredible

28:50

myself Liam and Jared are going uh eight days riding in the dolomites in Italy I

28:56

cannot wait for this trip it's being put on by a gentleman Phil Borman who put together a amazing mountain bike trip in

29:03

New Zealand in 2019 that I went on and it was probably one of the best weeks of my life and I can't wait to do this

29:09

Italy trip if you're interested at all and going on this trip with us like I mentioned we've got a couple spots open right now now check out the show notes

29:16

or if you just Google worldwide Cyclery ultimate dolomites Italy mountain bike trip you will find it as well but Link

29:23

in the show notes if you want to check out the details and uh yeah let us know if you're interested in joining us on that trip we would love to ride some

29:29

bikes with you guys and now back to the show and we are back with some listener

29:34

questions most of these are tailored for you Troydon uh Liam why don't you go ahead and read the first one all right

29:41

so trodin how did you come up with the name Crestline so you guys are from Cali and you're

29:49

probably familiar with the area and you've also come up with brand names and probably no it's not the easiest

29:56

thing to do right it's like nearly impossible in the 2020s yeah so I did

30:02

have a book um that probably had like 15 pages of ideas that were not great

30:11

a book that you made yeah a book that I was writing names in and then um

30:17

yeah uh we started thinking about location-based names uh and the fact

30:23

that we were from California and that's where Mark and I were and that's where I started writing and um

30:30

and uh Crestline is a zone that we love going to it's not somewhere we went all

30:35

the time it's a little bit of a drive to get there and there's some really cool pretty

30:41

well-known um downhill tracks there and it's actually somewhere where we did a bunch

30:47

of the testing as well so yeah it was it was an appropriate name and we just felt it it was like it's a cool name it like

30:55

it it's not like um it doesn't alienate anyone it's not like a super young name that only sort

31:02

of young people can really relate to it's not a super old name it's just it just worked so

31:08

um yeah uh when that came up we were like cool this is this is the name yeah Crestline which is what closest to

31:15

Big Bear Lake Arrowhead area yeah it's kind of on the back back side of um Big Bear

31:21

yeah yeah right cool cool yeah the next question is on the more technical side

31:28

why did you choose to use the Bosch system in your bikes so I think um this was something we

31:36

considered uh for quite a while like what to do and what was the right answer and we had obviously written a bunch of

31:43

e-bikes um with a number of different systems uh from you know the Bros to the Yamaha

31:50

to the uh Shimano Bosch uh and we just had

31:55

our best experience writing experience was with the Boston there were certain things about the

32:01

Bosch that we didn't like uh the integration wasn't that great that was one of them and

32:08

um tunability like you got sort of X number of modes and that's what you got and you couldn't do anything to it and

32:15

so those things were things that weren't the best on that system but when we

32:20

started looking into them we started seeing that they were making changes to those things and the things that were

32:27

the good things kind of remained and the things that we felt they needed to work on they were actually working on the

32:35

other nice thing about that system is it's a fully cohesive system provided by

32:40

a very established company so has a new brand we also want to offer good support

32:46

to customers and you know have them have a good experience and when you're bigger you can probably take

32:53

more chances with using different uh um vendors for different things so you

32:58

might get a battery from someone because you can get a bigger battery or you can get something that maybe that vendor who

33:05

provides the motor doesn't offer but then you have this issue that you might run into where if you have something

33:11

that happens people start pointing fingers at each other and you know as the person who made the

33:17

batteries like no the battery's working fine and then the person who who made the motor is like no the motor's working fine but these things are not talking to

33:23

each other now now what do you do so for us um it was important to have a system that was cohesive uh if we have an issue

33:30

with it it's Bosch we go to Bosch and we get it sorted out as simple as that and

33:36

and it's arguably you know one of the best on the market right now so I think that all lined up nicely for us and uh

33:42

yeah we're pretty happy with that choice yeah they seem to be having like just a

33:47

really good reputation that they're holding on to that good reputation thus far in the e-bike space and also seem to

33:53

be coming out with a lot of new stuff at a pretty fast pace that looks really well and you know just like well done

33:59

and refined which I'm pretty impressed which seems like they they're they're just competitive when it comes to trying

34:05

to be in this market and be a leader in it which is killer good to see that yeah

34:11

yeah and if I'm not mistaken your Crestline was the first bike with both the wireless motor

34:17

and integrated screen in the top tube right with the wireless remote yeah yeah

34:23

so I mean I don't know if we were but I feel like we were one of the first if

34:29

not the first to have the race motor in the US and then like you say the

34:34

Bluetooth mini remote and the system controller and the screen and everything basically all the bells and whistles of

34:40

the new stuff um also the um the valve stem magnets are no wire and

34:46

cable running to your rear wheel um and you know like magnet on your uh

34:52

disc or anything like that so all those cool little things that they came out with um we managed to kind of be there

34:59

I mean as those came out it's just cool yeah nice work worked out good

35:04

definitely uh next question is how was the

35:09

reception for a brand that mainly makes only e-bikes I guess it's slightly

35:16

confused because when you guys originally started talking about in launching Crestline you were going to do e-bikes and then you're like oh no check

35:21

out this super cool downhill bike and now it's like well what's Crestline gonna make is it you buy company because he told us it was but now it's not well

35:28

I mean at the end of the day what do you need bro down here back in the e-bike there's nothing else you really need right

35:34

so you can do pretty much everything on that you got your bike to go on trips go ride parks go ride chair lifts have a

35:41

bunch of fun and you get your e-bike to do whatever you want go ride with your cross-country mates go obviously

35:46

downhill guys you know what I mean so weird I guess I have four too many bikes

35:52

then yeah exactly yeah but I can go right I can go ride with you on any of your bikes

35:59

so yeah I mean the reception's been pretty good uh I think

36:04

uh maybe part of it is because of you know where it comes from you know and

36:10

the fact that we're focused on this sort of gravity side of the sport and that's what we love and that's what we want to

36:15

be our thing and our heritage heritage and so that's why the dh bike worked and

36:22

if you go and actually look at the downhill Riders you're going to like follow a bunch of the guys that race World Cups and like 90 of them love

36:30

e-bikes because they're they're cut from the same cloth you know they want to ride down the mountain they want to get

36:37

as many laps as they can and they want a bike that's capable to do that and so those are the things we

36:42

focused on so the reception's been pretty good yep has anyone been like oh you guys

36:48

need to make a trail bike or an Enduro bike kind of thing we have had like a little bit of like

36:54

okay it would be nice to have like a like a shorter travel actually what we have had is guys have ridden the e-bike

37:00

and been like damn this would be a really cool Enduro bike you know like it would be sick to have this without a

37:05

motor so that is definitely something we've heard and you know it makes you think a little bit I think for us coming

37:12

in as a brand late to the game like this or a new brand uh when so many brands

37:18

are so established and it's the sport is pretty refined right now like it's hard to buy a really a really bad bike right

37:25

um so for us it was like firstly we're being true to what we love

37:31

uh which is what we're making and secondly it works because it is one

37:36

segment that is still not as old as the rest of the

37:42

um segments are with these guys that have all these bikes that span across all these sort of different genres

37:47

within our sport um so yeah I don't know you never know like

37:53

Never Say Never we didn't know we were going to do the downhill bike who knows maybe we're doing Enduro bike at some point do like a limited thing might be

38:00

cool I don't know uh I like it nothing in stone just kind

38:09

of doing whatever you want yeah that's a good way to operate yeah

38:15

what was the hardest part of Designing the bike

38:20

so it's kind of weird but I think the hardest part was not actually designing

38:27

it it was getting parts to put on that

38:34

um yeah I think that was the most challenging part was I remember it was 20 20

38:42

21 like January when Mark and I said to each other okay cool you know like let's do this so we like formed the company

38:48

and we were like okay we're doing it and I believe that within my first two

38:54

months we had ordered parts for the bikes for delivery of

39:01

September of 2022 so it's about an 18 month ground an 18

39:07

monthly time and I and I was like okay cool I think I think we're safe you know like that should be good

39:15

um I still don't have confirmation for delivery on some of those parts that went in

39:23

in August of 20 I mean sorry in January or February of 2021 but

39:29

um yeah so there was some scrambling that happened um I ended up getting some North

39:37

American OE accounts set up because I couldn't get Taiwan OE account set up I

39:42

had to order some parts for the first batch of bikes that I ordered here in the US in aftermarket packaging and then

39:48

had to ship to Taiwan to get assembled so yeah they've definitely been uh

39:53

definitely been some challenges the designing part uh I think we actually got a little bit Lucky in one or two

40:01

senses because uh firstly we got in at a really good Factory um people have reminded us this a couple

40:07

times you know and I didn't maybe realize in the beginning but uh other people in the industry

40:13

have made it clear and you know I'm so grateful that we got in and at the time they were going through covert uh

40:21

the factories were shut down a lot of the workers were sent home but a lot of the engineers and the 3D surfacing guys

40:28

and uh were kept at the factory and they had a lot of capacity and I

40:35

remember when we were working on our bike we actually got a ton of support on that side of things that I don't think

40:41

you normally get and so you know at one point we had you know you designed one

40:46

size first and then from there you break out and do the other sizes and then they start making those other malts and I

40:52

remember them saying to us hey do you want our 3D guys to start doing your um your sort of like rh2 in your rh4 uh

41:00

while you guys finalize and we were like uh sure like that would be amazing and I

41:07

think it's because they were there they had the time you know so and it was pretty helpful for us too because these

41:12

are the guys that check your work um so we've we had already like got the aesthetic and stuff down on the frame

41:18

but then when it comes to clearances tolerances all that kind of stuff uh you know was actually super helpful having

41:25

having them uh looking over the frame and and doing things because that's what

41:30

they do you know they check you know all the manufacturers or submit their drawings and stuff and they'll check them so yes I think we've got a bit

41:37

lucky with that so um yeah it's I think the hardest part of Designing is

41:43

like is it being like okay cool it's finished you know let's make this thing and get it out

41:48

because you can always change little things you can always make things better you can always so it's that's kind of hard to let go and I think uh coming

41:56

from a music background was very similar you know a song's never finished because you can always change something

42:03

um and it's very hard especially in a creative thing to actually be like okay I'm cool with that let's let's roll with

42:10

it never done yeah it's never done but the nice thing is you can always make another song you can

42:16

always make another bike right you can always improve on so I think a key is like you also have to you have to let

42:22

those things go at some point otherwise you will never have anything come out right yep so yeah that's some good life

42:29

advice right there Troy yeah this is now a live podcast it's no

42:34

longer the mountain bike podcast well it doesn't apply to many facets of life right it does it really does yeah uh I

42:42

think uh this next question I'll let Liam ask since it's another thing that'll be full of life advice it's

42:49

super yeah we need an answer right away okay uh what is your favorite mountain bike component to use when eating soup

42:57

I feel like I read these questions and for some reason I didn't read this question

43:04

this is this is the when we ask the worldwide Cyclery audience for questions yes

43:10

hilarious combination of business related questions in the bike industry

43:15

to super technical uh mountain bike specific questions and geometry to

43:21

component preferences to things like you know have you ever [ __ ] in your shammy

43:27

like there's just it's just all it spans the gamut of yeah funny mountain bikers

43:32

just depending on when they happen to see the Instagram story and reply whether they were you know two beers

43:38

deep or mid-ride or bored at work or whatever I'm not sure there is a good component

43:44

I'm trying to think of the best component to eat soup with and

43:49

I mean I think I'm gonna go with the brake hose

43:54

because you can cut the brake hose and use it as a straw and actually eat the soup

44:02

I would go with a grip because if you take a just a grip it's like a spoon you

44:07

could sort of stop doing this soup you could spoon it in there you could put the broth in there and then just use your finger to kind of jam in some of

44:14

the noodles and then pour it in it's my what what's your answer I think I'd take

44:19

the saddle and I'd put a soup in a tire and like the combo would kind of worked pretty well

44:25

especially if it's like a more hearty soup you know

44:30

somebody yeah I wouldn't be getting any of the like goodies I'd just be getting like a very strange version yeah

44:37

some somebody told us just recently actually um a guy who was on the chasing epic

44:43

trip with us he was he was commenting how he thought it was hilarious that we would read these these questions and

44:50

then uh actually answer them like you know I think I think most people would probably hear you it's like oh what's

44:56

your favorite component to eat with the soup and then you would just like go on with your life and go to the next question but we actually would we would

45:02

answer them like every one of us would have a thought out answer and and give it to you

45:07

we got a compliment on that so I'm we're gonna we're gonna continue to answer the questions keep it going yeah we'll keep

45:14

it going um this next question is never never heard this one before there's also a

45:20

pink bike comment I'm pretty sure this hasn't come up like since we

45:28

started quote unquote this is never ever come up that's great well anything to do with

45:34

this quote unquote looks like a Santa Cruz uh was there inspiration from Santa

45:40

Cruz VPP platform how does Crestline differ I I think okay so for starters

45:45

you know there there was just for historical reference for people who don't remember there was that sort of

45:51

hilarious thing on pink bike for seemingly five years where everyone just said looks like a session and any

45:57

horselink bike that people would say that and like it was funny but then it wasn't funny and it got overused and then everyone just likes to say that and

46:04

and to the untrained eye everything can look the same but uh yeah I mean I think

46:10

you probably actually have some you know you got a high pivot VPP let's yeah

46:15

elaborate on this one for us sure so firstly I think that what your your

46:21

first comment is pretty poignant and I think there's definitely a lot more bikes that

46:26

have that kind of a layout and look like that right yeah and I feel like that might just be

46:33

because that's been around for longer I could be wrong um I think it's a fairly easy platform

46:38

to tune which is another reason why I think a lot of people use it

46:43

um the reason why we went with what we went was was uh we've always liked the way that

46:50

platform right and um so we've always liked the dual link platform with a with a fixed one-piece

46:57

triangle I don't know if it's because we're heavy heavier riders or

47:03

um I've always just felt that the rear end when it's done properly just feels a bit stiffer and

47:08

um yeah I just like the way it works and then you know we thought for a long time

47:14

um we've worked with a couple different people in the beginning one of them was Caesar from

47:20

um Sarah designs also like behind you know and uh went through a couple

47:25

platform options and just felt like we didn't want to do

47:32

something different for the sake of being different um and rather felt like we wanted to use

47:38

something that we knew was tested proven worked well was available to be used

47:45

and that we could make sure was done correctly and so that's why we

47:52

ultimately ended up using someone like Cascade who have been you know tuning

47:57

that platform since the start of their business and worked with them to do ours and the

48:03

nice thing about um about VPP is you get pretty drastic changes with

48:10

pretty small movements which is not the case with a lot of the other platforms so this can work in your

48:17

favor can also work against you it's quite easy to screw it up but then it is also quite easy to change things and get

48:23

different outcomes and have different options so even once we had you know

48:29

decided on the bike decided on the Geo decided on some main points we can still mess with one or two points that are

48:36

left over that are available to be messed with and continued testing and doing different stuff

48:42

so we felt that that was really a nice feature plus we've had really good

48:47

experiences with a lot of bikes set up like this and especially with Cascade

48:52

links on them so that's kind of why we decided to go that route and then the downhill bike

48:58

um is almost an extension of that where you know we did the kind of mid-high pivot thing hadn't been done yet with

49:05

BPP I know Santa Cruz have experimented With It ultimately I don't think Greg

49:10

really liked the way that road for him he's been riding you know the current bike for so long

49:17

um so yeah so I think that's why we went with what we went with

49:23

yeah so when it comes to bikes that have that VPP layout

49:28

um even small changes in the link and the placement of the pivots can make a

49:34

pretty substantial difference so even if they have somewhat of a similar look they can still ride quite differently am

49:39

I understand that correctly 100 yeah yeah so ultimately the look is is the

49:44

look right like you said to it it's like looks like a session and looks look those boxes do not all ride the same

49:50

right yeah and and the the changes on those need to be actually bigger than

49:55

the changes are now so as Outlook is kind of and and we try to consider that

50:01

and you know that's why you'll see our top link has a certain shape to it and you know something that we try to make

50:07

that will probably become like a thing for us um as opposed to just doing it like you

50:14

know some of the other guys have done it uh yeah I mean we wanted something that works we knew this worked and

50:22

it also eliminates um you know as if you think about it like a user coming in to purchase a new

50:28

bike from a new brand that's unknown we need to eliminate as many of those unknowns as possible Right

50:36

um so they can see the platform they know the people who have tuned the platform so there's a good chance that

50:42

it's going to work well or a better chance than some random thing that just you know we threw together and it's made

50:48

in a factory that makes all the other bikes that everybody else makes so you know you're just like eliminating

50:54

these these questions along the way while making the best thing you can make and that was that was the way we looked

51:00

at it yeah I like it it's good well and when you start refining something and

51:06

you refine it and you refine it over time uh you kind of like Get down to this

51:11

point right like if you look at Vehicles if you look at cars yeah there's a reason why I last 20 30 years they've

51:17

all kind of followed the same suit doesn't mean they'll drive the same it doesn't mean all bikes ride the same but like once you continue to refine

51:23

something like it's gonna end up at this point where it's going to be pretty much similar as far as aesthetically goes

51:30

because that's just going to be the best you know the best best way to do it yeah the best way to do it so yeah look at

51:36

dirt bikes you know yeah it's like no one's fighting about what they look like they all look the same

51:42

they have like a different color seat you know yeah unbelievably the same yeah so yeah yeah

51:50

that is funny that's a whole that's a hilarious like analogy to draw yeah

51:56

um what is what's your prediction for the next innovation in e-bikes

52:01

so I mean I think the the obvious one is like is like batteries you know it seems like it's

52:09

gonna be a race to like who gets who gets to use the new battery Tech first kind of thing and what what that

52:16

is or maybe it's not a battery but something else that powers the thing that's lighter and smaller right

52:24

um that seems to be the I feel like that will be the biggest thing I do also like

52:29

some of the other stuff that's popping up uh Liam and I were talking about it today we saw uh opinion with a gearbox

52:36

internal gearbox motor um I think that's really cool you know and

52:42

I think there's some really cool stuff that can come from that um I love the idea of like a belt drive

52:49

uh to eliminate noise and potentially maintenance and then you know having all

52:56

your your gears internal so you're moving that weight off the rear wheel

53:02

um the new transmission stuff is good works really well a little bit heavier

53:07

so maybe some people will see that in the wrong thing in the wrong direction I've been running it for a while I don't

53:13

feel like it's overly noticeable if at all I might not be in tune enough to

53:19

pick that up but I do feel like there's a lot of um there's definitely a lot of room for

53:24

cool stuff you know and I think it's going to take time for the right things

53:29

to emerge as what that cool stuff is and some guys are going to get it right

53:35

and get lucky and get on early and um yeah so we just have to kind of you know

53:43

look at everything properly and try to make those decisions appropriately

53:49

yep yeah nice I like it I'm looking forward to it yeah

53:55

Liam next question will mid-power e-bikes become the norm

54:02

I would I would also like to ask what exactly is a mid-power e-bike yeah I'll

54:07

let Liam wants to the midpower Eli question and then I'll I mean I I guess you could kind of say something like a

54:14

forest also almost a Manpower e-bike because you do have the specialized uh SL range which is

54:20

like a 35 Newton meter power and then you have the Forest Auto 60 or 65

54:27

um fazua and TQ are also maybe more in that mid power versus like the SL motor

54:33

I honestly have no clue yeah I mean I I think I think the funny

54:38

enough is the industry has very very sort of decided on what you know what

54:44

the travel range is for a cross-country bike and a trail bike and an Enduro bike and a downhill bike maybe that will be

54:50

how this plays out with e-bikes like eventually we'll sort of say like oh you know light light e-bike mid Power full

54:58

power like well I think I think you've tested the range in our head when people say those words I think you touched on a

55:04

day I think I think a med power e-bike is simply a lighter weight yeah it has a little bit less power I mean that that's

55:12

what it is that's what it boils down to is some people you know are against the weight

55:18

um I think the more you ride them the more you start to appreciate it and actually somewhat enjoy it

55:25

um but again depends you know like I must say like I'm I'm over six foot I'm 220

55:32

like so maybe that doesn't affect me as much so you know I don't want to be uh

55:38

what's the right word like selfish and not pay attention to what other people are experiencing

55:43

I think weight is definitely a thing and I think there's there's definitely a space for those bikes I do also think

55:50

those bikes are helping e-bikes in general almost as a little bit of a gateway drug where you know guys that

55:57

are purists that are real analog Riders not really interested in e-bikes it's

56:03

much easier to get them on a mid power bike like a half power bike that's you know not that much heavier than their

56:10

full-blown Enduro bike with downhill tires whatever whatever and then they

56:15

actually get to see how much fun they can be you know and before you know it they're like oh maybe I will try a full

56:21

power but I can see what it's like like so uh gateway drug yeah yeah so it

56:28

totally is kind of like that like it totally happened with our riding group down here they're almost all on SL bikes

56:33

and now they're almost all on full Powers yeah and so I think

56:39

but I do think that the gap between the full Powers I guess

56:45

you're probably thinking of it in two ways right like the the half power bikes might get

56:51

slightly lighter slightly smaller as the full power bikes get slightly lighter as well so they're both going to be heading

56:57

in that direction because that's that's kind of the trajectory everybody's chasing that how do we make these things

57:03

more efficient same amount of power slightly lighter um a little bit Slimmer looking all

57:09

those kinds of things that's that's what everyone's chasing so those two those two like segments are going to go in the

57:15

same direction I don't know if they go far enough to the point where the mid power one just disappears and then the

57:20

full power one is is so close to what the mid power ones were when they started that it doesn't really matter

57:25

anymore you don't need that red Power one I can't really say you know what's going to happen I'm a little worried

57:31

about the bikes below that you know the the old the older day bikes that don't

57:36

have any batteries or Motors or anything like where do those go

57:42

tell me like driving vintage cars people still driving just for the Nostalgia you know [Music]

57:49

no I'm just I think there'll always be plays for real real bikes and Arena especially in racing environments stuff

57:55

like everywhere yeah people are being tested physically so for me I I do feel

58:00

the weight sometimes if I go from riding my you know short travel bike to a Crestline I mean yeah that's you know

58:07

it's almost double the weight yeah um however if I'm on the Crestline for three or four days in a row I stop

58:13

noticing the weight right yeah um so it just kind of depends what Your Arsenal is what your goal is

58:20

um you know so and and like you said batteries will start getting lighter as

58:26

far as the wattage goes and the range goes Motors will get lighter so like that Gap will probably close over time

58:34

um and then you'll kind of just you might even just be able to pick your battery size and then that'll be a five ten pound difference even yeah so

58:42

yeah it'd be cool to see where it goes you know I think it's just there's so many cool things available that can happen you know as

58:51

people spend more time on this stuff yeah I mean just in the way that the industry's evolved so far with the

58:57

existing bikes we have it's like not not one new bike cannibalized another I mean

59:03

I guess you could kind of say that wheel sizes have had some you know effects over the years is the way they've

59:08

evolved but in in terms of different travel ranges and weight ranges of bikes like just because Enduro bikes are fun

59:15

does not mean that XC bikes will disappear and just because you know a trail bike is fun doesn't mean that

59:20

downhill bikes will disappear like it's all there's space for all of them at different times and different preferences and different use cases and

59:27

I don't know to me that's what makes the industry fun is that there's all these different things to try and ride and

59:32

enjoy exactly and now we've just got some more right we've just got a few more options yeah so yeah it's awesome

59:40

and I think it's just a pendulum right like I mean I've been in the industry pretty heavy for a decade now and it's

59:46

just it swings back and forth Enduro bikes are super sweet for two years and then it's kind of you know short travel

59:52

bikes and it's trail bikes now it's e-bikes you know and then my swing back my short travel bikes again but you know

59:58

people still ride where they want to ride it's just kind of like that that kind of popular pendulum is going to

1:00:03

swing so yeah that's a good way to think about it well the last question we have for you

1:00:09

Jordan um which actually this is this is pretty interesting for people that do ride e-bikes a lot which is is it do you feel

1:00:16

it's beneficial to have the SRAM transmission drivetrain on an e-bike I do think it's uh it's definitely a um

1:00:25

a drivetrain that caters really nicely to e-bikes and

1:00:31

you know first and foremost it's because of how they've managed to get it to shift under

1:00:37

load it's much it's much harder to be conscious of that on an e-bike

1:00:42

um and it is nice to just forget about it and just kind of like crank through when you need to and just keep going and

1:00:48

honestly some of the times your motor is pushing you know and you might not

1:00:53

necessarily want to be like if you're in kind of boost mode or race mode on a

1:00:58

Bosch motor and the the overdrive kicks in and you change gears like

1:01:03

I think transmission is definitely good good for that you know so I've been

1:01:09

running it for a little while now and yes it's pretty sick yep yeah it makes sense to me and man

1:01:16

just just for a lot of reasons especially shifting under load but even I mean even just with the added weight

1:01:22

of an e-bike you imagine the thing kind of in a crash scenario and the bike tumbling down a hill and it's just the

1:01:29

durability and the lack thereof of a derailleur hanger yeah it's like a good call the heavier the bike gets yeah I

1:01:36

took a pretty decent spoke where I hit a tree and then the bike like shot over the other way and like I scuffed up the

1:01:42

rear triangle a bit I think them so and I think the derailer took a pretty decent like hit to it and yeah it's it's

1:01:50

fine like I didn't even really think about it when it happened you know and then afterwards I saw what

1:01:55

like the frame took a hindi's net right there and I was like so uh yeah I think they've done a good

1:02:00

job yeah nice good stuff well we appreciate the time man uh I hopefully

1:02:06

that people who are interested in Crestline uh enjoy this episode and if we want to if anyone wants to contact

1:02:13

you you're obviously you can just Google Crestline bikes that's your guy's website Instagram

1:02:18

um it sounds like you're the the main guy answering the emails and all the DMS right now so yeah yeah shoot us a

1:02:25

message info@crestlinebikes.com definitely happy to answer the questions and Shout to guys about bikes and thanks

1:02:32

for having me on the podcast guys yeah absolutely thank you Jordan appreciate it thanks thank everyone for listening

1:02:39

and if you guys uh yeah want to hear more from us don't hesitate to email podcast worldwidecyclery.com and we will

1:02:46

do our best to try and get back on consistent podcasts here um albeit we put the quality of life and

1:02:52

vacations and bike trips ahead of recording podcasts but we'll we'll worry about that at some point in the future

1:03:01

all right good stuff see you guys later