Bike Sizing / Geo, Tire Casings, Suspension Setup...MTB Podcast Ep. 80



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On the MTB Podcast today, Jeff, Jared, and Liam talk about bike sizing, geometry, and how it has evolved over the years. The guys also talk about tire casing options, why they matter, and what they prefer. They also touch on what we are currently doing to support NICA and follow up on our MTB suspension setup video we recently released on YouTube. Finally, the guys close it out discussing a few new bikes and parts and of course, audience questions. Enjoy!

Bike Sizing / Geo, Tire Casings, Suspension Setup... MTB Podcast Ep. 80

00:00 Intro

00:54 Bike Sizing and Geo

9:02 Reach and seat tube angle

17:07 Tire casing and why they matter

26:43 Supporting kids on bikes

27:44 WC Staff Miles for NICA

29:27 Suspension setup 101

37:57 Fancy new bikes and parts

46:16 Audience Questions

Submit any and all questions to

If you are one strange human that would like to read a transcript of the podcast above, continue reading below!

ladies and gentlemen welcome to the mtb podcast episode 80 presented and hosted by worldwide
cyclery i am jeff i'm jared and i'm liam today we are going to talk about all sorts of various
mountain bike things as always um for example bike sizing the variance between brands
personal preferences etc then we're going to talk about tire casings we talk a ton about tires but
casings is a topic that often gets glossed over and is a bit confusing so we're going to dig into that we're going to talk about how to support
kids riding and racing mountain bikes suspension setup 101 fancy new bikes and
parts and then answer some listener questions let's go let's do it
[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] mountain bike sizing so this is a very
confusing topic mostly because you know historically mountain bikes have been sold in small medium large
extra large and one brands medium or large is not another brand's medium or large and then
it got more complicated when people started getting really preferential and they just wanted
a certain size and feel of a bike and so they would say oh you know the brands might have advised you hey if
you're this tall you ride this bike but someone's like well i'm this tall and i actually want that one because of x y and z so it got
a little complicated in the mountain bike world and it's kind of increasingly getting more complicated but
we're going to try and demystify that and talk about some of the most important things to make sure the bike
feels good and comfortable and fits you correctly and then how if you go a step further your preferences on fit which then kind of
changes the feel and ride qualities of the bike which is also separate from geo preferences right like things like
head tube angle chainstay length wheelbase length bottom bracket height those are geopreferences rather than like actual
sizing to make sure the bike fits you so uh to start i will just kind of give you my personal story on it
i'm a short guy i'm five foot eight and typically i would be on maybe a small but often just a medium-sized frame depending on the
brand and you know in the early years when i came from mostly riding bmx bikes i
actually liked riding size small mountain bikes and size small mountain bikes i don't know 10 15 years ago were
ridiculously tiny and had 26 inch wheels and they're and they're totally different now so bikes have grown in length and when you
say grown in length that's that's basically saying like what a small was five years ago for x
brand is now way larger than it is um you know than it was
so i used to like riding size small mountain bikes because i liked how they felt more like bmx bikes the reach was
really short and they were just like tight and snappy feeling then as i started getting into racing more
and you know realizing that a larger bike had a bigger wheelbase just by the nature of it
and the bigger wheel longer wheelbase was more stable at speed i started having a preference for that um all of this kind of came to a head
in man i don't know it was like four years ago i had a yeti sb 4.5 so it's a four and a half inch
travel 29 inch wheeled trail bike and i actually cut the seat tube on it it's carbon
fiber bike um 3 500 frame and i and i took a dremel to the seat tube because
i wanted to ride the geo and the size of the xl but i was too short to fit the correct
size dropper post with how huge the seat tube actually was on the xl
um so i cut the thing and and it was a total disaster we made a youtube video about it and it was like the video that
basically sort of launched the popularity of our youtube channel and i said in the video don't ever do
that i'll never do it again void your warranty not a good idea although it was fun and i had a good time i ended up with like
a mountain of carbon fiber dust in my hair after that and wasted an entire sunday in the shop by myself doing that so and
since then um you know it was almost ironic because the following years after that all like every single bike brand started
making their seat tubes shorter so that you could fit a longer travel dropper post or if you wanted to
size up you know because you preferred that feel then you could still fit the correct size dropper and
preventing the entire problem that i had with that yeti so for me now i kind of you know i kind
of know when i look at a geo chart on a bike like i know what reach i want right so reach is a little hard to explain without seeing an image but it's
basically the size of that bike when you're in the standing position which obviously your your stock height and
your stem length affect that too but that's a lot more easily adjustable in the frame of course so reach is a huge one and then
that's the standing one and then seated climbing the seattube angle so over the years i've kind of figured out
like hey i prefer um you know basically a 470 470 millimeter reach for myself and i like
that and like if i'm on a bike with that size that usually ends up being a large most the time depending on the brand um i enjoy that
feel and like that bike and it's it's different for everyone so it gets a little confusing
um liam what's what are your preferences on like size and where you feel comfortable now
versus how did it evolve right like when you were novice in the sport how did you sort of learn about sizing
and then how did like your sort of mentality toward sizing evolve as you like started riding and racing
mountain bikes more and more so i was kind of similar and i i came from bmx um
so when i first started running mountain bikes i really liked that smaller snappier feel and then i actually
started racing cross country and i was about five nine when i started
i'm i'm like a lanky 511 now and i would size down on the cross
country race bikes to get more like of an aggressive position so i'd ride mediums yeah even though i i kind of was on that
teeter of a medium large and then once i kind of stopped racing started working for worldwide i got a
medium sp 5.5 for my first like kind of trail bike and i got medium because that's what i
always rode and i thought it was fine and it jumped fun and everything and then i after that i think after talking to
you and everything and kind of getting you know a little bit more like just nerded out on geometry
i wrote a large 4.5 and i was faster and more comfortable and that large than i was on that medium even though i
had less travel so then as things kind of evolved i kind of found i i'm a
so i'm 511 where just five eight and i also like around a 465 to 470 ml reach
so which happens to be about a large on most bikes on my mondraker that's a medium and again the small medium large on
everyone's bikes are different yeah which mondraker by nature is an outlier of a brand yeah they kind of know having really
long everything yeah they kind of started this super long forward geometry as they call it
um so yeah now i'm kind of found like balanced in that 470 465 mil reach um and that's where i'm
kind of got a sweet spot for feeling comfortable yeah feeling comfortable both seated in
standing position and and kind of where i like it and i'll i'll mess with stem length a little bit
i run longer stems than jeff does too um so i'm about a 40 to 50 ml stem or jeff
is like a 32 to 35. yeah so yeah i think the common theme you'll hear from all of us in this
is just comfortability right like when you're comfortable on your bike it feels like it should it behaves like it should
like you feel good on it no matter what size it is like if you're comfortable on it you're gonna ride good and have a good ride and feel confident
and likely ride faster than if you're uncomfortable and same thing with being clipped in or being on flats like
whatever you feel comfortable on is is going to be better for you so don't like force yourself into riding a
bike too long or too short if it's uncomfortable just because like your riding buddy was like yeah the
longer wheelbase on the xl is way better your five six just buy it like yeah it doesn't doesn't really work like
that so yeah being comfortable on the bike is is going to be the key thing there um
yeah i don't know so so jared what are your thoughts on the whole thing yeah i mean i pretty much like liam am a large on
i guess yeah typically like him a large on most bikes um 511 as well like i'm super comfortable
on my large yeti sp150 but i do like to run a shorter stem like 32 mil stem like if i
run the stock stem i feel like i'm a little bit stretched out um kind of like how i felt on the salsa
blackthorne like that was a super long bike those were larges that we had as demos right yeah those were really long
it was like 480 reached with 50 most times yeah outlier of the large totally yeah like kind of similar to the
mandraker f podium i had too like that bike had a super long reach super long stem
but yeah shorter stem on there like felt more comfortable but yeah typically i'm a large most bikes like i kind of like that 470
to 40 reach yeah and definitely prefer a steeper ct bengal um when i just do not like when the seat
tube is super slack and i feel like i'm like pedaling over the back tire like i do not like that definitely prefer a
shorter you know shorter reacher like yeah yeah so that's that's kind of the next thing right is
you know reach is huge um and then see tube angle so c2 bengal is another one of those things that was largely
ignored or unnoticed for quite a long time and then it there's these like various things on
bikes that sort of become popular right like brands talk about them more people talk about them more
you know and they just trend and it's like oh you know at one point it was chainstay length it was like this big topic and then
you know it was headtube angle then it was chainstay length you know then it was reached then it was c2 bengals probably like the latest big sizing
situation everyone's talking about and why that makes such difference which correct me from wrongly makes way more
of a difference the taller you are correct because that angle is coming basically from the bottom bracket
sort of towards the rear wheel and the taller you are the higher your you know your butt is going to be from
that bottom bracket and then the taller you are you're going to be sitting way further behind the bottom bracket so that c2 angle
is more important the taller you are so taller riders complained about that a ton and and that's kind of where brands
started realizing like huh we we should adjust that and then they just kind of realize in general like the steeper we make it you know you can
take this long travel 150 millimeter travel bike and like if you're sitting almost over the bb you have a lot of
power pedaling and can pedal efficiently and i was like wow like steep in that c2 bengal and you can ride this longer travel bike
and the whole thing just feels more efficient you know it's like wow this like used to pedal like a pig and now it
pedals pretty good so that was one of the big sort of epiphanies i think geometry had in the last
probably a few years you think last few years that definitely reach combined with c2 yes those two
together were like one of the major things that made these longer travel bikes start pedaling
more efficiently and more comfortably uphills um so that was huge so
i guess we're still a little on the on the side of complexity here yeah also like for
taller riders is that where kind of effective seat tube comes into play versus like actual c tube correct yeah so most
geometry charts will only have one c tube angle um and it's
usually the effective c tube angle which means it's an imaginary line from the bottom bracket
to most of the time they measure that from a
parallel to the ground line from the head tube angle of how the bike sits so that's not
actually where your seat is your seat's usually above your head tube angle so this effective
yeah like the head like the top of your head tube if you draw a straight line correct it's hard to this is hard to speak without visualizing but if you're
looking at a geotextile top of your head with a straight line uh back to where it intersects with your
seat tube your actual or seat post actually your seat post at that point um that is
where they measure effective seat tube angle now that's different from actual and it's usually actual is actually slacker so that also
affects a tall rider so like uh brandon comes to mind it's just evil yeah right so they they
usually have a pretty steep effective but their actual is actually a couple degrees slackers so if you're
bigger on the bike like if i were to ride a medium and i normally ride a large my actual
seat seat height would extend so far my effective seat to mangle would be
closer to 70 versus a claim 75. so that makes a big difference totally
that's huge yeah it is and that's i mean you hear you generally hear in my experience like
guys guys and gals like six one plus especially like six foot three plus that are like
really complaining and loud about c2 bengals where at five foot eight i don't really care a
ton like it doesn't make it i've never really been bothered by it like i've definitely noticed that the advantages
um when bikes started coming with steeper c2 bengals especially longer travel ones but i don't know it's not a huge deal at my
height it's more the taller you are the more important it is to like pay attention to that metric when you're buying a bike especially because you kind of ride a
large so actually your seat is closer to that imaginary parallel line to your head
tubing where mine and jared's is a couple inches above it so um yeah so then you mix your seat tube
angle with your reach and then that's how you are climbing right that's you climb your on your bike
70 of the time uh if you're trail riding so that's that's a big comfort thing and how
comfortable you are yeah so yeah this is still this has still gotten fairly complex so let's
let's give a word of advice a word of advice for um those those of you listeners who
don't want to sit there and stare at geo charts for like seven different bikes you're considering right now
if you can demo a bike that's the most important thing if you know what your existing bike is and it feels either too big or too small
or just right figure out those geo numbers compare it to what new bike you're considering buying that's another good strategy
there and if you're in between sizes so this happens a ton so i mean it probably still happens a lot
even with the weight bikes are sized now a lot of yes liam's the same way like a lot of in my experience a lot of people
who are five foot eleven they're like i could write a medium or i could write a large like the geo the sizing charts say like the medium
goes up to five eleven and the large starts at five eleven that's a very common question and my answer to that you know is as
long as you can still fit the dropper if you were to get the large you can still fit the size dropper you want on there
is what is your preference right so like what are you riding now how comfortable do you feel on it
the large bike is just gonna have a little bit bigger reach not by much like most bikes from a medium to a large
or not even an inch right it's like three quarters yeah like 20 millimeters
yeah so people are like oh that's only like this much like that yeah yeah um so you know if you the smaller
bike's going to feel a little closer in a little more nimble a little more upright um the longer bike is my pay it's a
little bit more stable at speed because the wheelbase is going to be longer the reach is going to be longer you know that's kind of the theory of long bikes in general so if
you know you just have to kind of think about that what kind of rider am i do i always keep the wheels on the ground and i ride fast and i'm worried about
stability and i want to like make sure i feel roomy and comfortable cool go with the large if you're like you know what i
like to do cuddies and just i'm popping everywhere and i jump like yeah you might want to actually end up going with the medium
then if you're in between sizes so hopefully that didn't make it any more confusing but reach is important to
know you know the easiest i think some of the easiest things what are you riding now are you comfortable look at that versus the new bike you're
considering see tube angle the taller you are the more important that is to pay attention to um if you're buying a new bike and you
know again it just all boils back down to what you're comfortable on like if you're comfortable on the bike you're gonna have a good time and it's
gonna be all right so and and don't be don't be shy and afraid if you're short and you want to ride a long bike because
you just really prefer the wheelbase or if you're tall and you're like i just really wanted to feel like a bmx bike like that's fine too like might be a
little bit of an outlier but you know don't be shy about that like everyone has different sizing preferences on bikes and
that's just the way the the bike world goes so yeah interesting stuff any last thoughts as
many bikes as you can yeah that helps not not that we live in an environment where you can demo a lot of bikes but it's coming back a little
bit so if you can demo more bikes or even ride your buddy's bike um and then just i don't know
just paying attention to it you know what reaches on this what c2 is it i wrote it i felt x you know versus y you know just taking
those notes down so there you go that hopefully helped you guys on bike sizing and now a word from our sponsors
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and now back to the show hey i kissed curb too in case yeah it happened blew up a i-9
let's talk about that actually okay yeah here we go oh no tire casings and why they matter a
lot right jared yeah that's correct yes so tire casings often overlooked because people are more concerned about brand and pattern and
width but casings really make a difference and uh we were just joking about how jared
uh attempted did you even attempt to bunny hop the curb or did you just that was the problem i did attempt to
bunny so the story gets more embarrassing okay so there's this you know this
curb and this uphill near a trail that we like to ride all the time and and really the best way to do it is just
to roll the curb but i decided to be a great idea to bunny hop try bunny out the curb and i just came up the tiniest bit short
just so my tire interfaced perfectly with the edge of the curb and then
proceeded to blow out my tire instantly and then also blew up my rim and uh i was walking home
after that on a those were the carbon wheels no i think thankfully you know it was uh
industry nine trail 270 uh 24 holes so still like a thirteen
hundred dollar wheel set that yeah that caused some damage too just of a but that's because uh yeah it's getting a
little cocky yeah it probably had like a pretty light tire on there i think it was a wtv trail boss of the light casing
and um but yeah just case case the hell out of the curb and just yeah i was so embarrassed
it happens to a lot of people yeah um so don't feel too bad really bad there is there is yeah
there's a number of like weird spots where we ride most the time that you kind of you cross roads and there's curbs or
you know right through a parking lot for a segment from one trail head to the next and you've got to bunny up some curbs and people make mistakes but it's the same
kind of thing so you know the tire casing is how thick that whole casing is and if you do something like hit a rock of course or a curb um
that's gonna you know maybe determine if that tire is gonna snake bite and slice a hole in the sidewall versus not
and this boils back down in my opinion i think you know we've talked about this a bit in videos in the past and the
lighter you are you know again if you're not prone to denting rims you can probably get away with
lighter casings if you're prone to denting rims and you're riding really rocky fast trails then you should
probably step up to thicker casings like the whole thing kind of be summed up in that i guess where it gets a little confusing
is that there's a but every various different tire brand has got a different terminology which is so confusing
um to know like to try and explain to you which casing is really heavy and which casing is
really light and that's there's so many variations that it gets really complicated so like for myself um i'm mostly always riding
maxis tires and exo casing is just what i like like 150 pounds five foot eight not a big guy
um i'm usually pretty smooth on the bike and i'm not usually riding like crazy burly trails so exo casing unlike
all my maxis tires is fine like i don't really have an issue i'm not really pinch flatting um extremely rarely so
like it's all good i'm not prone to denting rims um then you have what exo plus yep then double down
then double downhill and downhill okay and that's maxis so and that's the order
of yeah you know lightest yeah yeah lightness well i guess we were talking there is something actually lighter than exo but it almost
doesn't exist right yeah like old-school icons has like a non-exo like really lightweight like 2.1 with
cross-country tires you could get with like a non-exo casing but i think they might not even be tubeless ready at that
point but so yeah every brand's got a different sort of terminology for the casings and
then so jared your experience you just now you mentioned you recently are running thicker casing now because
of why and tell us that well yeah now i mean now i'm running double down uh aggressor 2.5 29 by 2.5 in the rear
on my sp 150 and exo plus asked the guy 29 by 2.5 in
the front and yeah i mean i just wanted to be able to run a little bit lower pressure
and not have to worry so much about blowing up my wheels and just kind of push it on the trail a little bit more because i just kind of realized
like i was holding myself back because i felt like i was going to just blow up my wheels if i
pushed it a little bit harder yeah that's not a good feeling no if you're holding yourself back because you're worried about breaking your bike you're
riding the wrong bike and or on the wrong trail so i'm like well yeah my bike can definitely handle
more than what my you know wheels like the check that those wheels can cash yeah yeah yeah i
need to step up the casing so yeah double down and the xo plus so i might take a page out of liam's book eventually and do like
double down dh casing like if i really just want to go to the extreme but yeah yeah i'm really stoked with how it is i just like
love the feeling of having that like insurance policy for my for my wheels yeah it makes sense so liam you're doing downhill casing in the
back and double down in the front currently because double downs are a little hard to get but normally i'd run
a double down double down um and that's like two reasons one
for the protection and for hitting rocks and everything i tend to ride sometimes a little bit
more like remote trails or i'll go on trips and the last thing i want to do is have a tire issue because they're saving 100
grams on him 32 pound bike i would be the guy to take a risk like that
yeah and when we went to moab i secretly put exo plus on your bike just to make sure i didn't have to fix
your tires yeah that's true yeah because i mean that that's like one of those trips where well i was running carbon rims the envy
wheels the am 30s and then it was like well we're going to moab super rocky we're going to be
long ways away from because that's the thing with casings right like if you're running tubeless and you actually snake
bite that thing you might like obliterate the tire entirely yeah and if you do that and you're 20 miles away from anything else or even
you're on a trip and you don't have a spare tire then it's like well now you got to go buy a whole new tire and tires are expensive so
um yeah i don't know for me like all my local stuff i'm just always exo is fine yeah um but yeah if i'm
taking trips exo plus is probably a safer bet especially if it's a place like moab where it's just super rocky
yeah so i like i like the double downs um and downhill casing uh on top of that they also make them a
little bit softer rubber for max's which is great and they make a max grip versus max tara that's true that's cool um and also you
just get a really good feel like it's a different feel going to a thicker casing on a trail bike you feel pretty invincible and now my
bike is definitely better than i am um yeah you know good feeling yeah so and and i'm a lightweight rider though
too so i'm only 150 pounds but i find that a thicker casing
allows me to ride to my actual potential and i can just like take stupid lines
without the risk of walking out like 10 miles yeah yeah yeah i know i mean that that's
definitely a good theory on it and um yeah i mean i always tell people like if you're prone to denting rims
or if you just are constantly having problems like slashing your tires open because you're hitting them on rocks really hard like step up your casings
yeah and the terminology is the most confusing part that is yeah yeah yeah and in your
terrain matters too you're riding in you know pnw you can run exo with a
bunch of psi and you'll be fine yeah you're in kind of arizona um a lot of kind of sharp
stuff sedona yeah phoenix you'll bump up your tire pressure yeah and run a thicker casing yeah and
you know that's kind of how you're going to kind of survive those kind of trails yeah yeah terrain plays a huge role
there absolutely yeah i mean i think in in a in a shortcut you know we talked a lot about
maxis because that's kind of the dominant player in the mountain bike side of things in north america at least
but if you're running other brands usually they make it fairly i think wtb's probably the most clear
right they have like they just literally call it light and tough that's what i'm talking about you understand that there you go yeah but
the the shortcut for other brands you know continental schwalbe e13 taraval is like look at the weights
usually like that's my dead giveaway if you're on their website on the tire website it's the same if they're both 2.5 inch wide and both
say 29 or whatever it's the same exact diameter and width tire and one has one is you know what 80 grams
heavier 200 grams heavier usually 150 grams for a decent step
up in case yeah so that'll tell you like okay the the heavier it gets in the same exact size just means the casing is
thicker and the same model tire so yeah usually brands try and explain what's going on there but it
takes some patience to sit there sometimes and read all of that stuff um yeah speaking of other brand
tires we by the time this podcast goes live we may or may not have already launched a youtube video about
basically other brands of tires except for maxis right so like just other cool brands that are out
there you know there's a lot of other good tire brands maxxis has a huge share of the market because they really do make
some great tires and a great product and a lot of options but there's other brands out there for for those of you that don't want to ride
that maxis train and have that yellow logo so anyways if you're interested in that check that out but um
good luck figuring out the uh tire casing terminology per brand and memorizing it
that's tire casings and now a word from our sponsors
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and now back to the show okay next topic here how to support kids riding and racing mountain bikes
and suspension setup 101. so how to support kids riding and racing mountain bikes i just wanted to
basically mention two things one nika national interscholastic cycling
association which is bringing mountain bike racing to high schools all over the country which is an incredible
organization that we've donated a lot to and really enjoy and then i also want to mention grow cycling
grow cycling foundation do you remember what they do jared you had it memorized at one point oh my gosh you're putting me on the spot here it's
promoting education access and opportunities that increase diversity and inclusion in cycling
so it's a it's a non-profit run um by uh one of our good friends elliott jackson
elliot jackson i can't say the word jackson no why do i mess that up all the time jackson elliot jackson jackson uh
incredible dude um anyways check out grow cycling foundation if you're looking to donate to some non-profits that support
kids riding bikes and making the bike industry a better place check that out i also wanted to shamelessly plug the new thing that we
invented here internally at worldwide called worldwide cyclery staff miles for nike that's right um
that was good thank you um where basically worldwide cyclery will make donations to
nika on a quarterly basis on behalf of how many miles our staff records on strava
so we we will donate one dollar for every mile ridden from miles one to a hundred fifty cents for every mile ridden miles
101 to 999 and 25 cents for every mile written 1 000 plus that's on an annual basis and we
make those donations quarterly so just know there's something fun thing that we're doing to support nika and give our staff
motivation to ride bikes more and more check it out go to our website in the footer the information is right there as well
as a link to the strava clubs and you can see how much we've all ridden liam what are you at for the year do you know oh i don't know i'm really bad at
strawberry i upload like once every other week oh i see you got one this week morning ride 23.8 miles
oh there you go it's on the page right now latest rides i did upload this morning oh okay so i'm up to date
jared you're on there too 9.5 miles i am almost at 400 for the year and uh
these legs are feeling pretty good so you better be ready to just dish out some cash well you're not getting the cash and i
guess no i know they are i know they are you better be ready we are ready we are so so anyways that's
that's just a quick mention on uh some some feel good things um some feel good ideas
if any of you are out there wondering hey i've got an extra 20 bucks i want to throw towards a good cause nika grow cycling foundation those are a
couple of really good ones out there in the bicycle world to consider oh yeah um next up
suspension setup 101. so we just recently came out with a youtube video all about that which i think it was
18 minutes long it was really long i was in it yeah yeah liam liam does the whole video
um it's it's basically you know if you've got air suspension front and rear on your mountain bike and you need to know and understand
what pressure to put in it your sag your rebound your compression it covers all of that it is it is a 101 suspension
is so complicated that we made this it's hard to make videos like this because some of the feedback we got
is interesting whenever we make a tech tutorial especially one on suspension some people say hey this was amazing hit
just right some people say hey this was like this is boy i already know all this dude like let's talk about tokens and high speed and low speed
compression balance and then um and then other people are like this was cool but it's still over my head like could you dumb it down even more
so it's it's kind of impossible to make a suspension tutorial video that hits everyone correctly but
we tried our best with this one and i don't know liam in in 30 seconds
to one minute like give how do you set up your suspension i start with air pressure to get sag and i start with
the rear shock first then the fork because if your rear shock is really low or really high you won't
really get the right weight balance on the fork so then you do air then i get a rebound
because uh you can pretty much just do air and rebound on most bikes and and that's how
most bikes i shouldn't say most that's maybe 50 percent of bikes only have an air and rebound adjustment they don't really have compression then
third i go into compression and start dialing that in and
yeah pretty much it's just base setting it's not expert by any means there's probably
better videos out there but people asked us over and over and over to do one of these so we try to do our best to kind of give
you guys a baseline setting things to look out for and kind of just a guide to get you in
that starting position and it's just a starting position from where you can tweak kind of from there yeah
cool oh sorry yeah he's gonna ask so so one thing people are asking is when you're setting your sag
do you leave your compression open or closed oh yeah a lot of people ask compression open compression open the
other thing people are asking well what the heck is open and close open because i think that was in the video but all the way
counterclockwise like you're loosening a bolt you're off yeah you're you're taking away off your
you're essentially unwinding right to think of it really easy you're unwinding and bolt to allow oil
to flow through a channel right yeah so open to set sag right then you dial it back close it off
and then go to your desired compression settings basically correct yes once you you you then count
your compression clicks or positions from fully closed right yes sweet yeah so that's that's
all there in the video and i think i mean for the most part a lot of people really enjoyed that i thought it was good
some people did say like a friend of mine was like man liam's too good he guessed so close to the air pressure
first try he's like have i sat there and tried like nine times to get the right air pressure to
even get close to the sag i was supposed to get and took me a lot of tries and i was like well
okay yeah that's when the yeti setup guide helps yeah yeah usually bikes have set up guys or
forecasts on it yeah or yeah rockshox has that one fox you know yeah and now the [ __ ] they're both really close fox and
rockshox setup guides they're like rock shock has an app now right trailhead trailer for the forks not for
shopping yeah those are really they get you really close yeah so here
here's another confusing thing that i think you know kind of the novice uh or just entry level bike rider is
going to be confused by is that different forks require totally different air pressure right so one fork
just because the size of the chamber and the amount of travel it has and the brand it has like you might be like oh i'm riding xyz fork
and i use 50 psi and like now you're on a different fork you could now be using 150 psi like totally
different yeah and it could be the same brand so yeah it couldn't be the same brand different model different travel different amount of tokens
yeah rock shock lyric i used to run like 73 75 psi now the rock shock zeb i'm running like
50 153 psi so drop like 20 psi yeah for the same sag yeah so yeah and
that's like exacerbated with rear shocks right because shocks not only the shock is different but then the bike's
like actual leverage ratio is totally different so it really throws things off people are like oh yeah just put your body weight in there like
nope absolutely not that does not work you can do body weight i work on one you test where your sag is at that's a
good starting point yeah there you go yeah that's a good idea yeah if you're like totally clueless put body weight pressure in there and
then just sit on it and you could get ten percent sag or you could but sixty yeah you know let's go from there
so yeah but that'll that'll give you the idea of kind of where to start so yeah yeah i mean i guess the the thing there i think
that's important is that like it is complicated and it's important to get right you don't have to get it
brilliantly perfect you don't have to get a perfect first time but if you have your suspension dialed in and you know and understand what's
happening with it it can really make that bike perform better therefore making you more comfortable and have more fun which we ride bikes to
have fun so it is important to get your suspension dialed so it's one of those things that is really necessary for you to as a
rider of any of any level to invest the time watching youtube videos and and learning the stuff and playing
with it i think two things on that you're not going to get it dialed the first try like not even close oh yeah no
way no it takes like years it takes a while to understand they know your preference and from your
base settings how we did in the video write that down and continue writing down each change you
make so that and then i think it's almost
more important if you're a novice writer or even a mid-level writer to really focus on suspension setup
because that's going to make a huge difference in your traction and riding ability or if you're just a
talented dude or girl and like you can kind of ride past suspension yeah so yeah yeah that's an advantage
like if you have properly tuned suspension and and your buddy next to you same skill level does not like you will
have more traction and like a way better performing bike everywhere on the trail and a better ride yeah yeah exactly
so suspension setup it's complicated but you know it's not too crazy don't get intimidated
by it watch some videos test some things and yeah like to liam's point writing things down
i have for i think over 10 years or maybe over 15 years i've kept a google drive dock where i have
all of my suspension and various related bike things set up so like my my actual saddle height um you know
center of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle and then i have like all the various different bikes that i've ever had and the air pressure
that's in what fork and what shock and how many tokens are in there i just jot all this stuff down
you know and and i've just kept it historically um so i could always look back at it reference you know that that is
important i mean that's a little bit taking it to the next level but it's also really helpful especially if you're riding different bikes often
or you're upgrading a lot or you're down going to demo a bike or trading bikes with your buddy whatever
so the more you can actually like keep a record of that stuff somewhere kind of like tires you use in
tire pressure like that's those are things to write down do you have that written down jared it's all up here
oh see don't don't be that guy write things down but it is like to a
certain extent um you know when you change stuff a lot it does vary like like liam's point earlier my
like on my 115 like the pressures you know i'm running like a hundred and something psi in the fork and on my zeb
on my 150 it's like 70 psi yeah totally yeah i should be writing the no yeah not even remotely the same
yeah so yeah should definitely be writing it down write it down jared i'll write it down and youtube listeners write it down
write it down and now a word from our sponsors hey this is norman from sramino 14 speed
drives trains live on kickstarter right now and appearing on shark tank march 12th we are developing the world's first 14
speed drive train that's going to be absolutely amazing with a 140 percent gear range it only fits on super boost
plus plus hubs check us out now on kickstarter and make sure to tune into shark tank
march 12th and now back to the show fancy new bikes and parts fancy fans got
a few interesting things to talk a few interesting things to talk about here that uh i don't know new stuff dt swiss
limited edition oil slick 240 exp hubs oh
man those things look good they made what 250 sets yes no uh they brought 250 sets in the
usa they made a thousand worldwide okay and they sold out in like an hour
they sold out so fast yeah we're recording this on march 4th when they released
them and we actually worked with dt swiss to build a gorgeous uno dash custom build
made a youtube video about it so if you want to see one of the fanciest custom uno dashes number one of 50 for
2021 uno the spanish bike brand only makes
50 bikes a year per model handmade hand laid up carbon in their factory in spain
and we got number one we got number one the creme de la creme is not right the creme de la creme but that's not that french
that's french oh well yeah let me say that's what you say it is the creme de la creme it is the criminal even though that's a french saying but
it's a yes spanish brand anyways that bike was amazing uh check out that youtube video um
it has those hubs on it they were gorgeous they're oil slick they were really cool i mean that was a limited edition thing
they did with the oil slick but it was more so to kind of talk about and promote the exp so if you ever have a dt
swiss hub it's likely has a ratchet system in it and they've updated sort of the style
the design reliability precision few other things with that um all of that's included in that article
we wrote on that right oh yeah accompanying the video yeah oh yeah so if you want to get nerdy about dt swiss rear hubs and the new exp
ratchet drive system um hit our website and check that out or watch the youtube video and the link to the articles in
the description like all of our youtube video descriptions so that's some interesting cool new stuff and watch that video in private
just oh yeah it's yeah it's uh yeah it's it's intense yes it's like high-end bicycle mountain bike
fanciness um next other cool new thing that came out maxis new ish tire well revised tire
they're shorty they came out with a generation two or version two i don't know if they're calling it that there's they are calling it the gen two
shorty okay shorty so the shorty is a classic mud spike from maxis
uh not used often but you see it a lot unlike the world cup circuit if you follow that um yeah probably
people in europe use it at all times yeah or even the north people that rides in northeast yeah even w
probably um but yeah it's definitely a specialty tire so they redesigned that i don't know how long the original shorty's been
a long time a long time yeah same design i can remember it works years uh they revised this pretty much
they narrowed the casing down a little bit to four give a little bit more clearance
and a smaller casing kind of helps like cut through the mud better and a little
bit different slight tread pattern difference with more siping to clear to clear mud and to grip if once you get
out of the mud on roots and rocks you need the the rubber and the knobs to conform
hence the more siping yeah so if you ride in very moist muddy-ish conditions um
check out that new maxi shorty and liam was mentioning that people actually use that tire in ultra
ultra powdery dusty stuff is that real it is like ews chili they'll run
um i could see running in it like mammoth at the end of season yeah so ews enduro
world series yes aws mountain bike racing option one in chile near
this time of year because it's the end of their summer yeah and with some very fine powdery dust silt
yeah yeah like it looks yeah maybe maybe a mud stylish tire like the shorty would work in that yeah
i've not tried that but yeah i've i've ran one like a handful of times when it you know we got our occasional
rainstorm i'm like oh i can pull the shorty throw the shorty on for like a week you know it's like yeah fun you know
but yeah that's that's that's your review from someone in southern california
yep all right next up the deviant cycles highlander
150. so devious cycles is one of the few brands with
a high pivot trail bike high pivot trail bike i don't have any
of those in existence no the two popular ones right now is the deviate highlander
and then forbidden has two now the druid and the dreadnought i believe i said that correctly i think
we talked about high pivot designs a bit on the last we talked about the dreadnought last episode yeah and just high pivot designs in general
yeah that's correct yeah dv it has one it looks really cool they make a 140 mil
travel and a 150 mil travel same frame different links um it looks
awesome and yeah those are gorgeous bikes yeah i'm really really curious to try one
i've never ridden a high pivot trail bike and from what i hear they have a different ride characteristic so
yeah yeah no cool stuff those look rad i would love to try one as well yeah agreed latest and greatest
interesting new stuff i think we should do that more with this podcast we should we should make sure to always include
like all product releases of all kinds because sometimes it's hard for us to make videos on everything and write articles
on everything but the podcast would be easier to just inform all of you mountain bikers out there listening that new cool stuff has
come out um speaking of which yeah well i was going to say i think i think you're right and i think deviant should send us one
to ride yeah yes that would that would be nice
pivoting on pivoting to the next and final new product that we're going to discuss the pivot trail four to nine trails
what are they calling 2021 or like yeah the version something or just 121. it's the new one it's
the new one it's the one the new ones the latest one the one you want you gotta get so this one is a 29er but you can also
run 27.5 plus because it has super boost plus
rear spacing you could run a 130 or 154 140 millimeter work oh am i getting you
riled up on our super bowl we're getting riled up on the super bowl we're buying our tongues on that one super boost plus
wait what is super boost plus for a super bowl it's the same thing it's just you know it's one
i don't know that's what they call it just super boost plus because you can run whatever you want you can run the 29ers oh you could write 2017.
plus not even we know what that is and we literally work in the bike industry 10 hours a day you know what it's just it is what it is
man dj pineapple is just shaking his head laughing at us well that is what it is i can tell you this means you can put a
plus tire it's got the super boost on it it's got a 66 degree head angle and it's lower setting in a 75 degree
seat angle what does it travel it's 120 meters rear travel i did say that you weren't
listening whoops yeah 130 to 130 excuse me yeah 130 to 134
130 to 140 millimeter fork you can run either side you could run a couple different wheel sizes a couple different forks it's a good
trail bike and uh seems like a pretty cool fun trail bike like this would probably be a pretty fun bike for our area yeah yeah i agree yeah a lot of
areas general trail bike general trail bike one quiver do it all one bike do it yeah
i don't know about this one there's no such thing as that there's another thing is that deviant actually
says that oh they say do it all tvss ultimate one bike quiver just got
bigger oh well see there you go okay this is a whole other podcast in itself to talk about that topic i think
that that so we're just gonna have to move on that confirms the fact that we should get one here to try
all of the bikes we should get all the bikes if you're listening and you have a bike send it to us yeah everybody send us anything and
everything i don't care if it's a 2010 or a twitter we just want to ride your bike yeah that's all okay this is
nicely please yeah okay moving on listener questions moving on listener questions
do you see e-bikes outselling analog bikes liam
um yeah normal bikes outselling or e-bikes out selling normal bikes yeah uh yeah i think he meant by analog
bikes non-e-bikes yes um yeah jared as jared is smirking and
laughing and grinning like gritting his teeth because it's yeah analog bikes acoustic bikes
acoustic yeah well analog that's another time we'll discuss whether you should call non-e-bikes
anything other than just bikes but they be digital bikes
liam do you think e-bikes will outsell regular bikes at any point i do yeah i think that they
will could be a while it's tough though because think about i but if you look at specialized sales and
from what i hear they're pretty much selling levos equal with any other mountain bike
yeah but but you're still talking about okay so i guess the question just needs a little more clarity because if if it's we're talking like full
suspension mountain bikes will he bikes out sell regular bikes that's true that's probably going to happen
before any other segment yeah right and then followed up by that would be like commuter bikes maybe
yeah like higher end commuter bikes like commuter bikes that are 500 plus um road what about road bikes i mean
it's gaining traction in the road it is um i just saw it really like
i saw a couple like pros that are out riding and you know their trainers or their friends
or the dads have e-bikes to keep up with them on the road bike because they're pinning it and there's even ews or not ews training
going on for like world tour where like you know x pros um we're riding road e-bikes and
basically like pulling the pros to train yeah so yeah
but that's very niche that is niche yeah i mean it's it's tough right i mean i think in terms of like full suspension
mountain bikes above two thousand dollars it's probably going to be the first category that e-bikes out-sell regular bikes if i
were to predict it i think it might happen in five years i don't know it's hard to say
i mean they are gaining traction fast i think in three years they'll be
almost neck and neck yeah it's i mean the there's not like actual proper report data
on that whole topic anyway so there's like no way we'll ever really know unless you know a whole bunch of brands decide
to disclose their you know yeah private numbers like three big five yeah information so
so we'll see i don't know it's interesting but when you're talking all bikes in general like there's a huge volume of bikes that's selling
target and walmart and toys r us and our toys not toys r us they went out of business but department store bikes right bikes under
100 yeah you know those are never gonna well i shouldn't say never but it's gonna be a long time before those are electric
yeah what do you think jared i think part of this could be potentially a generational thing you know what if you know maybe 10 or 15
years down the line we're not really interested in this like e-bikes or like they don't kind of phase out a little bit like
i don't know could be a fad could be one of those things where people realize like the resale value is no good because the bike doesn't last more than three
years because the motor and the battery falls apart i don't know yeah so a lot of unanswered questions and bikes just like electric cars right 100
i also don't think normal bikes are going anywhere especially in the mountain bike segment like there's still a place for them and like
there's still places where you can't ride an e-bike yeah so yeah that's true a lot of places yeah or
whatever you know when we saw that like yeah moab sedona i don't think you're supposed to ride an e-bike technically there yeah
yeah so yeah so yeah could be a while but could happen next question i am 225 plus
pounds plus gear is a fox 36 better for me i thought that was a 38.
36 or 38. you said 36 i don't remember what he asked but i must i guess here's mine better than
a lot of the video we talked about the 38 you know and even versus the 36 like 38's for a select few people in my
opinion you have to be going really fast and or be like a pretty
big rider to really notice the overall benefits of how much stiffer that is versus a 36 or versus you know any other
fork that isn't a 38 mil stance you can do lyric versus zeb yeah
i mean i'll say first time i rode a 38 i could immediately tell the difference i'm almost 200 pounds you know like
between 190 to 200 with gear and i could absolutely tell the difference first time like the front wheel traction and
uh just the overall like front wheel front end compliance i guess like yeah like the precision of it because
you have no flex in any direction so it's like riding a dual crown downhill forward like it's so precise when you point the
wheel and turn the bars and the responsiveness you get from it it's 100 yeah it is pretty shocking but i
mean what you know and that is more of a noticeable difference the bigger you are and the faster you're going right
probably more so the faster the technical of the trail yeah that too yeah if it's really technical right yeah i mean it'll just be a little more
weight you know just that front end is going to track real nice yeah so dig into
yeah there's been actually a good bit of youtube videos and topics covering like 36 38 which kind of go for that same kind
of thing so there you go sir um next question is how long do you think it will take if
i order something well um this is a challenging thing in the bike industry right now because
the whole industry was just just experienced extreme
consumer demand throughout 2020 um that depleted inventory really quick
that's been discussed a million times by us and a ton of other people in the industry and it's and it's left us in a
position in early 2021 where a lot of product is out of stock
and there's also just a lot of demand still you know because because a lot of people ride a lot more people picked up the
sport because it's just a good fun socially distant thing to do where that's put the whole industry us
included as like a large e-commerce retailer and you know three local stores you know
inventory is harder to come by it comes in small batches and the brands and the distributors are trying their
best to distribute sort of a nice portion to every retailer right and that means that nobody's
really getting a lot of anything um so if you're waiting on something and some retailer of any
any retailer gets something it might be gone really fast um because they didn't get a lot of it
so it has been going fast yeah it has been going fast so so act fast and i mean on our website in particular if it says
you know add to cart and you can check out and do that whole normal process then you got like a 99.9
chance of like we got it we're going to ship it out there's these very rare scenarios where we will accidentally oversell something because
two people will buy it simultaneously or someone will buy it in the store or on ebay and also on the website in
like the same 10 second period and then you get what we call an oversell and we'll immediately contact you and give your
money back and apologize that's very rare but it is happening much more now to everyone us
included um to everyone in anything e-commerce especially the bicycle industry oh yeah so so be prepared and just
thoughtful of that and you know we have a thing on our website wherever products out of stock you can drop your email and get notified
when it comes back when you get that email act immediately or you might not get it depending on how popular it is so so
that's what's going on there but you know we're working around it as absolute best we can and again if it says add to cart
you know you got like a 99.9 chance that like you're good it's gonna ship out everything's gonna be normal small
percentage it's gonna be an oversell um and there's a higher percentage it's just gonna say out of stock drop your email
so um jared deals with that stuff a lot he actually answers phones and emails customer support here so if you want to pick his brain
more on that hit him up jared biermann on instagram oh yeah or jared at worldwide
um so i i wanted to answer that question because this is a challenging topic that we're trying to communicate on
more so everyone who is a consumer like you guys listening that are riding bikes and buying bikes and parts
and everything know what's happening to everyone in the industry and the influx of demand that sort of we're all dealing with as
manufacturers and retailers and and the such next question why did you open up a shop
in lancaster so lancaster is in pennsylvania it's on the east coast we're originally from southern california a bit north of la
we're most of our sales is probably everyone listening that's familiar with us are online and we ship all over the
country all over the world and a lot of that goes to the eastern half of the u.s so for us it was just a
logistics play we wanted to be able to ship things to everyone on the eastern half of the u.s faster so we opened up a
store in lancaster pennsylvania then we opened up another one in reno nevada once again being closer to all these
brands and distributors it's all shipping time we know everyone including us when you buy something on the internet
you want it fast so we're trying to meet that demand from everyone and create a great customer experience
i like those two questions because they're very business related and nerdy and uh well nerdy
business-wise now let's do a bike nerd question real quick do you think electric suspension like fox live valve will be the next
standard liam jared answer this i guess i'll go first i
it's hard to see that in the future like 10 years from now this would be
something like a standard just due to how much it would cost to like implement this into basically every
single bike uh i think it'll be more common on higher end bikes
for sure like you know right now you can only really get them on like what three or four models yeah the bike actually has to the
frame has to be designed for the mounting like how everything is mounted right yeah so
do i think it'll be the next standard no do i think it'll be more common yes um from what i've heard like yeah it works
really well but it might not be for everybody so i guess that's my take on it
yeah liam yeah um pretty similar to what jared said i think it'll be more of a standard
on a very high end mid to low travel bike um take that pivot 429
for instance uh pivot is actually one of the brands i believe specking their bikes with live valve already yeah it is
um so yeah like a a full-blown cross-country race bike a lightweight trail bike um something
around the 121 30 mil travel i think it's great and i do think it will catch on especially once they figure out the you
know the quirks and you know as iterations come it gets cheaper and cheaper
um it'll work its way down and believe it's still like pretty darn expensive yeah to get on it looks like two grand
maybe for the yeah so add that just to have that just yeah over the normal stuff which is already
really 8 000 bike you're at 10 plus um you know and whether it's going to be
a standard whether it's going to like really really improve your ride not sure yet it's not kind of too early
to tell but yeah i think it has its spot and i think for certain situations it could be a
standard but i don't think you'll see it on any big travel kind of yeah as a standard in the next
10 years right yeah i'm i'm you know i definitely agree with what you guys said but i'd also like to add that
i think it's like a diminishing returns thing so i think it's one of those things that i mean the difference between
the highest end fox suspension right now on your bike versus that same suspension with live
valve i mean better maybe yes certain cases sure
how much better you know two grand better yeah you know i don't know to me it's like i
always talk about the innovation plateau i think mountain bikes are so good it's going to be really hard for them to get
you know significantly better i think that's a very negligible step yeah that's a very
negligible gain and it's really expensive kind of reminds me of the trust
fork right the trust message trust performance so if everyone remembers that it was that linkage fork that got really
big and it was very incredibly it worked good like i i personally like i said in the video
you know i talked a lot about it um i think it i think it's better like i think it was the best fork i'd written
but it had some you know it was heavier and at least at that version of it trust performance is
unfortunately no longer in business um but i i thought the given the cost
it just wasn't worth like you know it was like one of those things like it's five percent better but it's like
200 percent more expensive like yeah i don't think companies like i don't know i don't know if that's a sustainable
business strategy per se it's hard to justify as a consumer it's very hard to justify yeah which is you know trust obviously is no longer
here fox is in a very different situation through a multi-million dollar company experimenting
um i think back to you know five eight years ago where like remote
lockouts were much more common on bikes because they kind of needed it now they've kind of developed suspension it
works so well now right you don't really need it in a small travel bike yeah so it's kind of like one of those
things is like it was live valve just fixing an issue that might get figured out soon
yeah um you know yeah so i i would yeah i would like if you're like 10 years out i would
go totally 50 50 on whether that electric suspension even exists
yeah like now i don't know if it even will but it could i but i wouldn't i wouldn't give it odds that it will
i could see some electronic lockouts yeah yeah i mean that's kind of always been around and it will always make
sense for you like your brains like yeah but i mean like a breather
yeah it locks your rear shock out yeah yeah with a little unit i could see that being
i would take that for sure over quicker easy to install you know probably won't cost two thousand dollars because it's not
monitoring your monitoring when you wanna do it yeah but it'd be really clean and really easy to put on a
bike yeah i mean i'm thinking like if you have live valve what are the things that can go wrong with this
system like when you take your bike into a shop like hey my live valve isn't working like
you're the warrior guy yeah like what what do they do like how do they diagnose and fix your life valve like
you're gonna have to send like your whole bike into fox i mean that's that's kind of what happened to cars though right cars used to be very
mechanical and now like any modern car even in the last like 15 years is like you're a software program
right like you're a software guy more so than a mechanic yeah most most cars are uh mechanics are
actually called technicians now yeah yeah because of that yeah yeah that's true yeah oh my bikes
with e-bikes and this who knows true uh we'll see the future will be interesting
absolutely um the the last question we had which i asked liam to write down was something
about like do we have any job openings and he didn't write that down he just actually wrote down the current job
openings we have correct questions the answer is yes we do do you have any job openings yes yeah
the answer is yes um we have a if you go to our website you scroll down to the bottom on in the footer of the site we have a
thing that says we're hiring you can always drop your resume there if you're interested in working for us we would we would love it
if you could drop your resume we're kind of always hiring we have three locations and we're hiring for different positions
in different locations at different times currently we've got three spots open in california
a mechanic position a warehouse lead position and a customer support
slash retail store position so um yeah drop us drop us a line we're kind of always hiring and we're we're
always expanding the team and trying to build a great company culture here so that is it for episode 80. thank you
very much for listening if you've made it this far we would like to say thank you we love you we love you we
love you yes and uh please write and review this podcast wherever you listen to it
everyone's looking at me laughing please write in reviews thank you for listening to the mtp podcast presented by worldwide cyclery
see you guys later peace later [Music]

    March 11, 2021

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